Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

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Atlanton
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by Atlanton »

After playing a couple of games, I've been settling on the same economic approach every game regardless of profile and I wanted to see if I'm missing any potential alternatives. Anyway, here are my observations and how I deal with them:

[ol][*]Metal is so important and so scarce that most games are going to focus on increasing metal production before anything else.

[*]On non-easy difficulties (and depending on the planet type), metal nodes cannot be relied upon to exist or be explored/prospected in a reasonable time.

[*]If you're lucky to be on a planet with ruins, nationalizing your starting recycling asset and spamming recyclers everywhere you can is the most important thing to do in the beginning. Not only do the recyclers get precious metal, but they also get fuel and rare metals.

[*]Researching and building soil demetalization is the most important project in the early to mid game. Everything is focused on making that happen as quickly as possible (i.e. building power, trading for money/resources, etc)

[*]Industry assets are very metal intensive and not worth upgrading past Level 1 until you have a couple levels of demetalization plants... and once you have a couple levels of demetalization plants, you never have to worry about metal or rare metals ever again.[/ol]

I'm still relatively new to the game and systems, so I'd love to hear the thoughts of others.
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KingHalford
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by KingHalford »

Play on a wider variety of planets and you'll see that all your points don't carry over I'm afraid. There's some truth to point 3 perhaps, I usually try to get that recycling nationalised but if you're on a metal rich planet (a young planet generally) then the metal mines are more effective ways to get metal.
Ben "BATTLEMODE"
www.eXplorminate.co
VoodooDog
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by VoodooDog »

iam also very new to the game but i feel that ressources are not scarce enough.
for me it quite dosnt feel like a post apocalyptic world because i always have everything in abundance.
i would love to get an option to decrease the amount of ressources on a planet.
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Jdane
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by Jdane »

It's true that metal can end up being rare, depending on the planet.
I made a suggestion to implement an optional resource preview during the planet generation.
This would allow a player to assess if they are willing to face the challenge of scarcity, or would rather re-roll.
(Or as VoodooDog's comment made me realize, would rather re-roll to increase the challenge.)
I took this initiative because I imagine it can be quite frustrating to realize late in a game metal for example will be hard to come by going from there.
I'm more of a go with the roll of the dice guy, but also think more player agency can never hurt.
VoodooDog
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by VoodooDog »

i believe such a thing would not be of much use, because i create planets with complete fog of war (seeing nothing) and i also never reroll. ^^
just a starting option ressources: scarce, normal, abundant or something would be cool in my opinion

Atlanton
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by Atlanton »

ORIGINAL: KingHalford

Play on a wider variety of planets and you'll see that all your points don't carry over I'm afraid. There's some truth to point 3 perhaps, I usually try to get that recycling nationalised but if you're on a metal rich planet (a young planet generally) then the metal mines are more effective ways to get metal.

That's definitely fair, as I've mostly been playing on older planets with some semblance of water on them. I'll have to give them a shot.

ORIGINAL: VoodooDog

iam also very new to the game but i feel that ressources are not scarce enough.
for me it quite dosnt feel like a post apocalyptic world because i always have everything in abundance.
i would love to get an option to decrease the amount of ressources on a planet.


Honestly, it's not as much scarcity as it is the feast or famine nature of them, that I think you're touching upon. Once you have demetalization or if you're on a planet with metal mines, it feels like metal just isn't a concern. Of course, I haven't been fighting hellwars with human opponents, so maybe that would make the demetalization income seem inadequate.

I definitely need to better understand planetology and how the generation will affect gameplay.
jking142
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by jking142 »

Metal is absolutely critical from the start of the game: there is literally nothing that can be made without it.

I won my second game on beginner, which notably offers you a metal mine next to your capitol.

None of my "normal" starts had a single metal mine anywhere nearby (fully prospected); without a rich zone for scavenging, this start is basically impossible. I managed to control two full zones in my first normal difficulty game, only to find out my neighbor was a major with 4 zones, 5 exploited metal deposits, and a level IV city before turn 40. This RNG wildly skews the difficulty setting: the planet was not metal poor, just me.

I admit that I did not find that fun, and decided to restart, using the detailed planet generation process rather than the quickstart. I was surprised to find that a planet with 21 billion population pre-war left not a single scavenging tile anywhere near my capitol. (I had seen the screenshot on this forum of a planet with fields of ruins, and figured that that would eliminate the early impact of metal deposits.) Maybe they were concentrated on the other side of the world, but it highlighted the variability and criticality of initial starting conditions in the game.

I recognize that this is a design challenge for a procedurally generated game, and I propose some consideration be paid to addressing the viability of the player start, since this is currently the true practical measure of game difficulty. One possibility might be to allow a new starting hex rather than regenerating the entire planet from scratch.

Incidentally, I have swallowed my pride and gone back to playing beginner, simply to ensure having that first metal mine.



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KingHalford
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by KingHalford »

ORIGINAL: jking142

Metal is absolutely critical from the start of the game: there is literally nothing that can be made without it.

I won my second game on beginner, which notably offers you a metal mine next to your capitol.

None of my "normal" starts had a single metal mine anywhere nearby (fully prospected); without a rich zone for scavenging, this start is basically impossible. I managed to control two full zones in my first normal difficulty game, only to find out my neighbor was a major with 4 zones, 5 exploited metal deposits, and a level IV city before turn 40. This RNG wildly skews the difficulty setting: the planet was not metal poor, just me.

I admit that I did not find that fun, and decided to restart, using the detailed planet generation process rather than the quickstart. I was surprised to find that a planet with 21 billion population pre-war left not a single scavenging tile anywhere near my capitol. (I had seen the screenshot on this forum of a planet with fields of ruins, and figured that that would eliminate the early impact of metal deposits.) Maybe they were concentrated on the other side of the world, but it highlighted the variability and criticality of initial starting conditions in the game.

I recognize that this is a design challenge for a procedurally generated game, and I propose some consideration be paid to addressing the viability of the player start, since this is currently the true practical measure of game difficulty. One possibility might be to allow a new starting hex rather than regenerating the entire planet from scratch.

Incidentally, I have swallowed my pride and gone back to playing beginner, simply to ensure having that first metal mine.




Yes some of the game starts can be very hard. I like this as the challenge can be a lot of fun, some people will not and I expect once this hits Steam there will be a lot of complaints. You'll usually know within a half hour if you're going to have to restart or not though so I don't personally think it's a big deal, and Beginner mode is by no means easy so resorting to playing on that difficulty is no shameful act.

Ben "BATTLEMODE"
www.eXplorminate.co
Geezerone
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by Geezerone »

Here is my "gut feeling" when it comes to predicting the planets resource allocation:

- If it's a wet planet (ice counts) then you have an abundance of water (duh!)
- During the Colonization phase I look for lots of mining activity text, for an abundance of Metals.
- If during the Biome phase you have plant life then you generally will have plenty of Fuel/Oil.
- High populations (depending on the size of the world, Small > 100M) in the Colonization phase will result in lots of Ruins to scavenge.
- Younger planets tend to have more Metal, while older planets are more prone to have life.

I find that when starting with an Unclassified planet, I can usually tailor the experience I'm looking for. I've read that people had some success recreating an Arrakis type world when starting from an Unclassified, rather than one of the desert world templates.
LordAldrich
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by LordAldrich »

I also get the impression that a more dense world (higher gravity for a given planet size) results in more metals. But that might just be confirmation bias?
diamondspider
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 1:54 am

RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by diamondspider »

For now, I simply go for a high ruin number, as listed above, and this solves short term metal problems.... usually long terms ones too.
Kamelpov
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by Kamelpov »

Personally I don't use the number 3 as I want to kickstart my private industry+ get free migrants.
I only do the recycling spam only starting for the next ruin.
diamondspider
Posts: 141
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RE: Economic observations and the scarcity of metal

Post by diamondspider »

I usually do nothing to piss my people off until they are at 100/100, then I privatize a few things. The exception is the truck stop that gets privatized as soon as I need it.
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