Play test Scenarios Ver 4.0 (4/15): Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

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BeirutDude
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Play test Scenarios Ver 4.0 (4/15): Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

EDITED: Play test version 4.0 posted below in Post #25...

After trying to do this in one scenario with the A/I playable from both sides I decided I really needed to separate it into two human player variants. So there is one for Greece and one for Turkey. It's pretty bloody and I do allow a six hour "Pre-war" stage where the players can set up their air unit load outs and missions (both sides). You can always start the war early but with less air support. Also IF you go into the scenario editor to set up load outs and missions, fine but make sure you go into the opposing side and activate all of their strike missions.

I did set up naval missions as the island really made it difficult for the A/I and I had to break up into small AORs. There are a few early ASW and AAW missions to keep things honest, but feel free to change whatever you want WRT missions and initial positions of the TGs.

This Youtube Video is a good backgrounder, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Ix9J7ASMo

So with everyone under foot from COVID-19 I really haven't personally play tested it as much as I like before putting it out there, so your help and advice will be appreciated. It might be a bit messy at first.

Stay healthy everyone!!!!

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
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I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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goldfinger35
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by goldfinger35 »

Excellent. I was looking for good Greece vs Turkey scenario.
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

I was looking for good Greece vs Turkey scenario.

Good could be debatable! A good scenario is very much in the eye of the beholder. That said, I play tested the A/I missions and what I had last night and wasn't happy. I tried to create a single scenario with both sides playable and frankly I don't think players will enjoy that tack at all (I didn't and I created it!) So going to set it us as two individual scenarios one with Turkish A/I-Greek human and the second with Greek A/I-Turkish human. I think that will give the human player a much, much better experience.

Am going to set up naval missions and a few AAW Missions to keep the early portions honest and let the players load out their aircraft munitions and missions. Then from there experienced players can go into the scenario editor and adjust the missions as they see fit and the newbies have a starting point
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

Download is in the first post. I did split into two human player scenarios.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

Found an issue, all of the land based air/surface/SAM search radars, on both sides and in both scenarios were turned off. Have fixed them for the next version.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
magi
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by magi »

great video.. ill check this out.....
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

Edit: Version 3.0 below...
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
magi
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by magi »

I AM PLAYING THE VERSION I DOWNLOADED 4/4.... i will go in and turn the Turk ground based radar on... dont want to start over.. if its not important...

the only little thing i have found so far is that .... TG Odysseus ASW Patrol.. prosecution rp's weren't designated relative...

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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

Fixed. found a mistake in the Turkish Scenario description but trying to edit the document locks up the program.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

Version 3.0. Very minor edits. Corrected a few errors I found in aircraft (units in a "maintenance" status), Turkish Scenario Briefing and the Issue Magi indicated above with the Prosecution Zone.


Edit: version 4.0 is in post #25 below...
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by magi »

i am playing Greek...
i pretty much uped all the missions and ready times by 3 hrs... i can tell it is going to be intense over the Aegean....

one thing i dont think is not working out so good... is with all the missions in the Aegean... both sides are closing in on each other to point blank rang... when the first shot is fired there will be a totally chaotic melee engagement.... i unassigned many of the surface and sub surface groups so that i might manage them a little.....
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

i pretty much uped all the missions and ready times by 3 hrs...

So I get it nobody wants to wait to start shooting [:D], but by doing this you've shifted the balance to the Greeks. All the Turkish ready times and missions are set to a six (6) hour Greek ready time. The converse is true when playing the as the Turks. This is a scenario designers dilemma in this game!

1. If I pick the load outs then someone isn't happy,, because I didn't pick their favorite load out of the dozens of munitions available for each aircraft. Or I didn't assign the aircraft to the mission they wanted it to fly. I got butchered on that with Med Tsunami!!!!!
2. OK so then I let the players pick the load outs. "Now I have to wait, 3, 6 or 20 hours to start shooting!"
3. Set something based on a certain time, and experienced players go into the Editor and change it to their liking, throwing off the balance and timing of the entire scenario.

I've tried everything I can here, I don't know what to do!!!!!!! Not criticizing your choice but it is frustrating as a designer! Command is the hardest game to design for, for these reasons and I have been designing scenarios since SSI's "Tanks!" You might want to go into the editor and adjust the Turks times as well to get the feel of a full Aegean melee!
i can tell it is going to be intense over the Aegean....

Real world yes it would be. I'd expect dozens of downed aircraft and many sunk vessels in the first day of a Greek-Turkish conflict. Consider the Cold War and the Soviet/WP "Tattle-Tails."
one thing i dont think is not working out so good... is with all the missions in the Aegean... both sides are closing in on each other to point blank rang... when the first shot is fired there will be a totally chaotic melee engagement.... i unassigned many of the surface and sub surface groups so that i might manage them a little.....

Agreed. The missions were originally set up from the one scenario playable from both sides aspect. I did think about deleting the TG/SSK missions for the human player, but figured they would themselves if experienced and for the newbies, they are set up to try to avoid the A/I from hanging up on the islands. That is why I kept them, so far.

I did go in and change the mission Doctrine to maintain course in attack mode and gave the TGs/SSKs a course that will keep them going for six hours so they don't sail around in big circles, but welcome to the littoral [:D]. Both sides will be jockeying for position. One thing CMO A/I can't do well is use the islands for cover as a real TG commander would be doing in this situation (An issue with the Hormuz scenario I just did as well).

Thanks for the help, but please do consider adjusting the Turkish timing to get the full Turk A/I reaction to your initial attacks.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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goldfinger35
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by goldfinger35 »

I didn't yet have time to test this scenario so I will give feedback when I play it (as Greece) but letting the player pick the load outs seems like a good decision. I really appreciate all of your hard work and effort because I know how time consuming it is. Keep up the good work!
magi
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by magi »

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
i pretty much uped all the missions and ready times by 3 hrs...

So I get it nobody wants to wait to start shooting [:D], but by doing this you've shifted the balance to the Greeks. All the Turkish ready times and missions are set to a six (6) hour Greek ready time. The converse is true when playing the as the Turks. This is a scenario designers dilemma in this game!

1. If I pick the load outs then someone isn't happy,, because I didn't pick their favorite load out of the dozens of munitions available for each aircraft. Or I didn't assign the aircraft to the mission they wanted it to fly. I got butchered on that with Med Tsunami!!!!!
2. OK so then I let the players pick the load outs. "Now I have to wait, 3, 6 or 20 hours to start shooting!"
3. Set something based on a certain time, and experienced players go into the Editor and change it to their liking, throwing off the balance and timing of the entire scenario.

I've tried everything I can here, I don't know what to do!!!!!!! Not criticizing your choice but it is frustrating as a designer! Command is the hardest game to design for, for these reasons and I have been designing scenarios since SSI's "Tanks!" You might want to go into the editor and adjust the Turks times as well to get the feel of a full Aegean melee!

about loadouts.... if people would play in editor mode its a non issue....
i did adjust the Turk ready times and missions as well....
i do have a question about mission times... are they set for zulu or local time..?
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

i did adjust the Turk ready times and missions as well....
i do have a question about mission times... are they set for zulu or local time..?

Zulu, I think mission times are always in Zulu. Am I wrong about that?
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

about loadouts.... if people would play in editor mode its a non issue....

If only Nagumo had the opportunity to play in the Scenario Editor! [:)] [8D] [:D]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Play test Scenarios Version 3, 4/5 - Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by BeirutDude »

If anyone is still playing this scenario, Magi, I hope I didn't insult you! Not my intention!!!! You may have noticed the Scoring wasn't set. I didn't want to do that until I had a better idea what looked like good numbers to use. So for both sides going to make Disaster "0" and Triumph "6,000"
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
magi
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RE: Play test Scenarios Version 3, 4/5 - Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by magi »

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

If anyone is still playing this scenario, Magi, I hope I didn't insult you! Not my intention!!!! You may have noticed the Scoring wasn't set. I didn't want to do that until I had a better idea what looked like good numbers to use. So for both sides going to make Disaster "0" and Triumph "6,000"

oh no.... not at all.... im not that sensitive.... and i am respectful of your efforts...
ive learned mission times are zulu... which is most sensible....
i havent played for a couple of days.....
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RE: Play test Scenarios Version 3, 4/5 - Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by Primarchx »

Weird thing. When I play this scenario I don't get Creep & Cruise throttle settings, though I can still set speeds manually.
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RE: Play test Scenarios Version 3, 4/5 - Greek-Turkish EEZ Conflict, 2021

Post by goldfinger35 »

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

Weird thing. When I play this scenario I don't get Creep & Cruise throttle settings, though I can still set speeds manually.

Interesting. I didn't yet start this scenario, but I randomly got the same problem with 1141.2 with scenario Spratly Spat
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