Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

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exsonic01
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Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by exsonic01 »

https://sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... -Radar.pdf
This is catalog of MESA radar for E-737. In this catalog:
MESA provides wide area surveillance of greater than 340,000 square miles at rates exceeding 30,000 square miles per second for a typical 10-second scan rate.
340,000 square miles = 328.9762 mile radius (about 329 miles) = 285.8725nm (about 286 nm)

At the same time, this catalog mentioned about 'Sector-selected modes':
MESA’s active electronically scanned array allows operator-selected surveillance sectors with higher update rates, which can double detection range. Variable range and angle sectors are enabled while still maintaining a 360-degree background for situational awareness. Sector-selected modes provide three to four times higher target search rates and eight to 10 times higher track updates than legacy rotating AEW radars. Multiple emphasis sectors are operator selectable to focus on areas of interest in either fixed-to-ground or sectors moving with the platform.

360 degree search mode has ~286nm range, but 30 degree wide "Sector modes" can see up to ~572nm (double detection range). This "sector mode" can be operated together with 360 degree mode at the same time, and multiple sector can be watched as well. With more search rate and track update, it seems taht "Sector mode" may able to provide good enough resolution to operator.

Currently, in CMO database, E-737 MESA has single range mode (360 degree detection mode) with 350nm range.

Would it be possible to reduce MESA's 360 degree mode range from 350nm to 286nm, but introduce one more search mode with 30 degree width but 572nm?

Now, the problem would be "how the 30 degree width 'Sector mode' should be operated by AI". Since we have no idea how real operators use these modes (this would be classified) I guess this needs some assumption. I was thinking of something like:
Very slowly rotating two 30 degree wide search mode beam, just like the blades of 2-blade helicopter. But stop rotating and fix the position when it finds the hostile contact.

But I'm not sure is this a good enough assumption for operation. This is just my pure opinion based on no background experience so any other good suggestion would be great too.

Anyway, is this possible to simulate 2 modes of MESA radar in CMO?

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Primarchx
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by Primarchx »

It could probably be done. But making it work effectively for the AI, and hence as a method usable for the OPFOR in any given scenario, are slim to none. Hence, not likely in the foreseeable future.
exsonic01
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by exsonic01 »

ORIGINAL: Primarchx
It could probably be done. But making it work effectively for the AI, and hence as a method usable for the OPFOR in any given scenario, are slim to none. Hence, not likely in the foreseeable future.

I agree, AI part would be tricky. 30 degree width beam will have 12 sections. So, I was thinking something like:
1) Rotate "30 degree width beam" 360 degree, very slow. Like 30 degree per 30 seconds or 30 seconds per a section.
2) If beam makes a contact with bogey, stop rotating, keep the 'beaming' to bogey direction.
3) Bogey direction subfunction should provide new direction every given time to update bogey direction.
4) Try identification (NCTR-JEM) for some amount of time, like 2 or 3 minutes. But if identification fails, then keep rotate the beam to next section.
I wish if there is a logic to control E-737 to automatically move to frontal side (15 degree) of contact to use NCTR-JEM. But not sure if such things are possible, this can be dangerous too, so I think control of E-737 would be better to be leaved to AI or player.

If we can make this little more smart, then we could let AI know about 'possible enemy direction'
1) Estimate the direction of known enemy carrier or known enemy airfield.
2) Rotate "30 degree width beam" 180 degree, based on the direction of known enemy field or carrier.
3) Direction of known enemy carrier or enemy air field continuously changes as E-737 moves, so it needs to re-estimate 'direction' once every 180 degree search is finished.
4) If there are no known enemy carrier or enemy airfield, then just do 360 search.

I know those are very rough idea but I just thought this could be a good starting point... Can LUA do something like this?

But such operation idea is purely my imagination, not anything close to real, so such description of mode operation will be historically wrong. However operating two mode at the same time (286nm range 360 degree + 572nm 30 degree section) would be very cool feature.
KnightHawk75
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by KnightHawk75 »


An alternate to a different 'mode' of the same sensor would just be a new sensor you could add say a 'E-737 MESA-Secondary' one that has the range related specs, and the nctr-jem flags to match this second mode, and a Arc applied that fits it.
Can LUA do something like this?

As for what you describe in playing around with it's rotation in LUA it could be done in theory. To shift the beam around you could do it by adjusting the sensor Arcs on this second radar sensor. I think you'd have to constantly be deleting the sensor and re-adding it though ( sceneedit_UpdateUnit(add_sensor|remove_sensor...) ) with the new next appropriate arc on a timer. Given that may only have to happen every 30 seconds or 3 minutes, it's not as pretty as just changing it, but probably would work for item 1 and 2 of the first list. Item 2 could be handled by a detection trigger that runs a script function to check related UnitX detecting sensor, if matches yours, then pause or otherwise inject delay into the rotating script. Could try using #5648 Ghadir OTH-B as a stand in during proof of concept, but the scan interval is slow like 160seconds so you'd have to shift it like once every 3min and it's only 2d, so maybe the shorter range #5663 great pine 3d at ~480nm might be better for testing. Either radar cone will stick-out so to speak over the existing 350nm one so should be easy to see during each rotate step.

Was trying to think of one that has ~600nm range, slim pickings as there are no non-ballistic aew radars with that range in the db. Probably since unless the object is above the usual aew alt of say 30-40k I think the radar horizon runs out around ~500nm of something of equal'ish height anyway so you need something special. Could always just ask the sensor with the real specs be added to the db even if it's not added to the plane (or is added with just default arc being the nose and you can then mod from there with the add\removes).

exsonic01
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by exsonic01 »

Hey devs, would it be possible to update database for MESA radar in future? I guess "sector" mode play would be interesting. But I understand difficulties regarding AI description. So, please don't feel too burdened. I'm just asking possibilities.
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Sardaukar
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by Sardaukar »

Could edit plane adding secondary radar and adding arc for radar? I think that might be possible?

Then plane could loiter and by turning could sweep around with secondary radar?
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

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Rory Noonan
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RE: Is this possible to make "section-search" mode for AEW radar?

Post by Rory Noonan »

This can be done, I'll pass it along to the DB guys [:)]
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