[Fixed] TSARH

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orca
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[Fixed] TSARH

Post by orca »

I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks
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Primarchx
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RE: TSARH

Post by Primarchx »

Doesn't that stand for Terminal Semi-Active Homing? IE - the missile uses inertial guidance for most of the flight to target and then uses SARH for the last, terminal phase. One good example is the SM-2 missile with the Aegis combat system.
Rain08
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RE: TSARH

Post by Rain08 »

TSARH also appears for the AIM-54 (noticed it way back in CMANO), but it means Time-shared Semi-Active Radar Homing.
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Joelsi
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RE: TSARH

Post by Joelsi »

TSARH stands for Terminal Semi Active Radar Homing in the case of R-27R/ER (ALAMO-A/C).

The R-27R/ER's guidance is midcourse INS with corrections via missile datalink + terminal phase SARH.

ATM in CMO the guidance is listed as Command-Guided. This leads to some interesting behaviour.

In CMO the Su-27S can fire and guide 6x R-27R/ERs to 6 different targets while remaining radar silent.
IRL it can only shoot at a single target at a time and the radar must keep a lock on the target.
(IIRC there is a limit of 2 missiles guided for a single target but I'm not 100% sure about that)
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stilesw
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RE: TSARH

Post by stilesw »

I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks
No, should only be on the weapon, not the aircraft. My error, will be fixed.
-WS
“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)
Uzabit
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RE: TSARH

Post by Uzabit »

ORIGINAL: stilesw
I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks
No, should only be on the weapon, not the aircraft. My error, will be fixed.
-WS

Hi Wayne,

you may also want to check the Mig-29 and its variants - they have this problem aswell, leading to AA-10A missiles being only guided by command without any SARH guidance and the planes having a tactical synthetic aperture radar. I haven't checked the other platforms that carry AA-10s aswell, but I suspect there also might be problems there.

Best regards,

Jonas
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stilesw
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RE: TSARH

Post by stilesw »

you may also want to check the Mig-29 and its variants - they have this problem aswell, leading to AA-10A missiles being only guided by command without any SARH guidance and the planes having a tactical synthetic aperture radar. I haven't checked the other platforms that carry AA-10s aswell, but I suspect there also might be problems there.
Jonas,

There were indeed. I corrected all the units that use the AA-10s - removed the sensor from the aircraft involved (and there were a bunch) so now the sensor is only mounted on the weapon. Please let me know if you find I've missed one!

-Wayne
“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)
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michaelm75au
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RE: TSARH

Post by michaelm75au »

Would this be the cause of the other TSARH issue https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4773352
Michael
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stilesw
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RE: TSARH

Post by stilesw »

X
“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)
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stilesw
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RE: TSARH

Post by stilesw »

x
“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)
Uzabit
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RE: TSARH

Post by Uzabit »

ORIGINAL: stilesw
Would this be the cause of the other TSARH issue https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4773352
I don't think so but I can't eliminate it since I do not know how the code handles the weapon. Here is the DB3K entry for the AA-10. Perhaps you can see something there that I need to fix.

-Wayne

Image

Hi,

i'm a bit confused about the TSARH seeker DB entry - it says Tactical Synthetic Aperture Radar, which to my knowlegde is used for mapping ground imagery. I can't tell how exactly the simulation get's its information for weapons guidance from the database and where it actually is defined. For example in DB3000 V478 there might be a useful and similar entry:

#1667 RIM-156A SM-2ER Blk IV, Guidance Type: Datalink (DL/INS) mid course plus semi-active radar homing.

Sensors/EW:
1x SARH Seeker

Properties: Terminal Illumination, (...)

It's kinda hard to test this since I'm not able to make any DB-changes. Maybe Dimitris or another developer can chime in and give hints how to best implement this kind of guidance system.

Jonas
Rory Noonan
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RE: TSARH

Post by Rory Noonan »

Fixed for DB 483
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Carl Fantin
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RE: TSARH

Post by Carl Fantin »

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

Doesn't that stand for Terminal Semi-Active Homing? IE - the missile uses inertial guidance for most of the flight to target and then uses SARH for the last, terminal phase. One good example is the SM-2 missile with the Aegis combat system.
Scorpion86
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RE: TSARH

Post by Scorpion86 »

ORIGINAL: apache85

Fixed for DB 483

I just checked DB483 and it seems that some Flanker models still have the TSARH sensor.

I took the liberty of compiling a list of all the Flanker models (I could find) that still have that sensor:

#708 - J-11
#2155, #2156 - Su-27P
#134, #353, #603, #2370 - Su-27S
#847, #4696 - Su-27SM/SM3
#436 - Su-30
#3819, #4582 - Su-30SM
#3820 - Su-30M2
#4622 - Su-33
#275, #3723 - Su-34
#2689, #4232, #4741 - Su-35S

I hope this may be helpful...
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stilesw
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RE: TSARH

Post by stilesw »

I just checked DB483 and it seems that some Flanker models still have the TSARH sensor.
I took the liberty of compiling a list of all the Flanker models (I could find) that still have that sensor
I hope this may be helpful...
Very much so. Thanks.
Fixed in next release.
-WS
“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)
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goldfinger35
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RE: TSARH

Post by goldfinger35 »

Just an update for this: in Live Black Gold Blitz, Iran Mig-29s at Dezful cannot be rearmed because ammo shelter has 120 SARH missiles while that Mig can use only TSARH...
Rory Noonan
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RE: TSARH

Post by Rory Noonan »

Thanks for the heads up. We'll check with the author and make a fix based on their recommendation [:)]
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Rory Noonan
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RE: TSARH

Post by Rory Noonan »

I've tried this in the release version which is currently at DB 479 and with an updated version at DB 487 and am not seeing this issue--there are 'SARH' AA-10As listed in the 479 version but that is simply because that's how they were modelled prior to ~DB 486. In both 479 and 487 I'm not able to reproduce a situation that results in aircraft not able to rearm due to having incorrect weapons in magazines.

Can you post a save in case I'm missing something?
Image
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goldfinger35
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RE: TSARH

Post by goldfinger35 »

Attached is a scenario and a picture: 120 R-27SARH are available at magazines but Mig cannot be rearmed because it uses TSARH
Tested with 1147.10, default DB

Attachments
Black Gold..itz-test.zip
(1.17 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
Rory Noonan
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RE: TSARH

Post by Rory Noonan »

Is this based on actually taking off, shooting a missile, landing and re-arming? I'm able to run through that sequence without issue.

Attached is a save and image showing the MiG-29's at Dezful rearming after having sortied to shoot down an aircraft. The AAMs work (i.e. they shot down a target), and the MiGs are now rearming. You can see that the weapons are not mismatched as the magazine count has dropped to 119 available in mags, 139 available including what's currently on the parked/readying aircraft.

As mentioned above the text in the air ops dialog does indeed say SARH rather than TSARH, but that is simply because that's how they were modelled prior to ~DB 486.

I've updated the scenario to DB 487 to take advantage of the improvements we've made in modelling the AA-10 since this scenario was created. I am still not able to see any issues with aircraft being unable to rearm in either DB version, however.
Attachments
BlackGoldBlitz_487.zip
(2.03 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
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