Scenario for Play test: Version 3.0 Hormuz 2020

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BeirutDude
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Scenario for Play test: Version 3.0 Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Version 3.0 is attached in the thread below...

Briefing: After Major General Qasem Soleimani, of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, was killed by an American drone in early January Iran launched a limited IRBM strike on two (2) joint air bases in Iraq. After this response Iranian forces went strangely quiet across the entire region until IDF/IAF air strikes were renewed on IRGC/Quds Force positions in Syria in February. The IDF was convinced they had dealt the IRGC a significant blow but by late May much of the IRGC position in Syria had been reconstituted. In late June the IDF/IAF decided it needed to assault them with a much more massive series of strikes. These airstrikes brought Hezbollah units in southern Lebanon into the fight. The intensity of the missile/rocket and artillery exchanges threatened to bring IDF Ground forces into the conflict, and influenced the repositioning the USS Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group (CSG) to the eastern Mediterranean Sea.


Since the assignation of Soleimani the IRGC had not been completely inactive in the Arabian Gulf, over the ensuing months units had been brought up to a higher state of readiness with heavy activity in the Bandar Abbas Naval Base. One concerning development was the overhaul of all six (6) Iranian amphibious vessels, for reasons unknown. Speculation was this could be for a mining operation or some type of a raid into GCC territory, and HUMINT was pressed for answers…


1. The scenario goes for 2 1/2 days with the first few hours (6 to 12) relatively quiet, during the overnight period, but with the situation gradually rapidly heating up. Use this initial period for setting up missions, moving units into position and other pre-conflict operations. I have left many units for you to load out as you see fit but also have set it up so the B-52 Bombers become available toward sunrise.
2. You will receive a series of “Emergency Action Messages (EAMs)” as the situation clarifies to the intel community and things become actionable. I can’t stop you from just initiating hostilities, but in the real world you would be answering to higher command authority, and their guidance/instructions are represented by the EAMs.
3. At some point someone, possibly you, is going to begin the shooting. Your primary tasking in this scenario is to protect the merchant vessels and keep the Straits of Hormuz open. Damage or loss to commercial vessels and/or western units will cost the GCC/Allies VPs and destroying Iranian/IRGC assets will gain you VPs.
4. Keeping your minesweepers (MCM) in the Straits area for more than 6 hours will gain you VPs, as they will be assumed to be sweeping mines, and more practically every mine cleared is one less to cause damage to a merchant or naval vessel. Please do not clear the locked Reference Points (RPs)
5. During the “Pre-conflict phase” it is important that all ASW Missions are set to “Weapons Tight” (Command default is “Weapons Free”).
6. Initial damage to your ships represents breakdowns and long-term maintenance on equipment. Personally, I’ve never been on a ship with all (100 percent) of its systems operational, let alone dozens of fully operational ships. Thus, I randomly damaged systems! Your Electronic Technicians, Radiomen, Hull Techs and other ratings will be trying to bring those systems online.
7. Civilian shipping is a mere fraction (less than five [5] percent) of actual shipping in the Arabian Gulf area (Check out the Maritime AIS tracker site online for a full picture of any given day!).
8. Additionally, the GCC/Allied forces represented are about 1/3 of what is actually deployed there at any given time. I tried a full allied OOB and the Iranian efforts in the Straits were destroyed within three (3) hours.

One more thing you will note two GCC/Allied vessels listed as sunk, its because I was a bit overboard with the damage to the propulsion systems. The losses are zeroed out in the scenario and the vessels replaced but I couldn't clear them out of the log.

One known issue is with vessels leaving Bandar Abbas getting hung up on the Islands. I've spent an entire day trying to make it stop! Eventually they find their way to the Straits. Short of building an artificial Bandar Abbas Naval Base on the island, I'm not sure what to do about it. Open for suggestions!!!!!!!


Last saved with Command Modern Operations (CMO) Build 1121.8
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
serjames
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

Just gonna finish the LIVE DLC then hit this one up :-) Thanks for the mission to test
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

Just setup my start position. Initial feedback, bear in mind I haven't pressed start yet :-)

Spelling - assassination

Can locked reference points not be hidden ?

For the logged losses, rather than mess around trying to purge them, why not build them into the backstory. Either aggression from Iran through extensive mining operations. Or IRGC Rib attacks... etc... You could take the line that the US were able to rescue crews, so the "line" wasn't crossed and no further action was taken. Or just sink a couple of Iranian Fast attack boats and have them listed as backstory.

Feedback - All civilian shipping seems to be visible. Would it not be more challenging to have them hidden and discoverable. Gives us something extra to do in patrolling and IDing vessels at the get go. Perhaps a % of them Hidden and Unknown ?

Lots of good units to mess with, but could we get some british T-23's or T-45's they have played a major role recently in securing the straights so it seems odd not to have Brits out there. They base out of Oman and have minesweepers too. As well as Aircraft available?

Shiraz - Airbase in Iran has Ammo Bunkers places around a single unit Airfield. However zooming in on the sentinel 2 Map textures shows the placement of the unit cards to be odd. Ammo bunkers etc across the middle of the the aprons. Not a big issue, but a detail one. All other Opfor Airports and bases in contrast look well laid out

Love the placement of the Bandar Abbas SAMs they match perfectly what I can see on Google maps... Nice - shame the Sentinal 2 textures are such low resolution.

I like the approach to damage on vessels. It's a nice mechanic to play around with. I haven't got started yet, but I do have a concern than as the component damage adds up to an OVERALL damage the vessels integrity is compromised, when in reality it would still be fully sea worthy and fightable. Is there a way to knock systems down without taking way core DPs?

Pre-start - initial impression of the Locked Mine sweep area, which I've converted to a mine sweep mission. Is that it is very large for the small number of MCM's to sweep - I appreciate mine density may be sparse (?) but it does look very large - also seems to extend to well within the Territorial waters of Iran along the north and eastern sides. Is that an issue ?

Anyway here we go...
serjames
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

Ships coming out of Bahrain are getting stuck. The path finding is not good enough to navigate them safely. Could you start them on patrol ? or anchored further out to sea ?

An alternative approach would be to build non-navigation zones when the sea floor is less than 10ft deep... it seems to be the island to the north that is most troublesome

Just learnt that the P8 has no MAD... mad

despite damage to systems being isolated AWAY from engines and propulsion - the damage seems to have caused significant speed penalties for all ships. e.g. RDNV Al-Seeb Z 20 which doesn't seem to be able to navigate at more than 9 knots

Subs are appearing from bushehr and banda abbas. Surfaced. Easy to track

MCMs coming out of Bahrain are going to take >1 day to get to the Straights
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Primarchx
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by Primarchx »

ORIGINAL: serjames
...
despite damage to systems being isolated AWAY from engines and propulsion - the damage seems to have caused significant speed penalties for all ships. e.g. RDNV Al-Seeb Z 20 which doesn't seem to be able to navigate at more than 9 knots

Subs are appearing from bushehr and banda abbas. Surfaced. Easy to track

...

- Damaged ships lose speed due to progressive damage as well as damage to propulsion.
- A couple of reasons why subs would be on the surface. First is they're set to a patrol which has active radar on. Second is they're in water too shallow to successfully submerge.
serjames
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

In retrospect I think the pre-damaged ships are a mistake. I get the objective, but as they become compromised as a fighting unit even though their radio is damaged it will just frustrate players I think.

serjames
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

SHOOTING has started and Iranians seem slow to react.
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

You need to tick the box on the Doctrine screen to allow control of the ROE for land - at the moment I cannot select Hold Fire
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Primarchx
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by Primarchx »

ORIGINAL: serjames

In retrospect I think the pre-damaged ships are a mistake. I get the objective, but as they become compromised as a fighting unit even though their radio is damaged it will just frustrate players I think.


The damaged units seems just bizarre. There's a Burke DDG with 70% damage at the start. I can see some systems out but a ship that's 30% of it's structural integrity from sinking is in dry dock!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by Primarchx »

One idea about making ships navigate safely out of port is to move the port pie-wedge into a good spot and then make no-nav zones to force ships to move through the port allowance.
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by serjames »

Yep this would help Bandar Abbas... As I can see a whole load got stuck up there. I'm pretty much done. Recommendation would be some over-lapping fields of fire on the S-300 systems. None of them were that much of a nuisance and the ones to the north and east are just a waste I think. Perhaps just put them where they are needed?

There didn't seem to be that many Iranian aircraft ?

The mines didn't cook off until ages after the Minelayers had dropped em and were all destroyed (pretty much in the first 10m of action) - which caused me some headaches. I presume if I had left the game running it would have damaged loads more ships as despite my "Desperate Hails" over the guard channel none of the green container ships seemed to take any of my minesweepers' advice to steer south off the main shipping lane. I suppose I could have created No-navigation zones ? Is it possible to do that and have them influence the Indi ships ? Might be a nice mechanic

Anyway good fun and a nice way to spend a rainy weekend. :-) Cheers
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by AndrewJ »

I'd agree about the damage. I'm definitely on the micro-management end of the spectrum, but this is a level of granularity even I don't want to contend with. Which ship was missing exactly which system? How has their performance changed, and how does this affect their use? How the heck does a helicopter pad suffer a maintenance failure, and why are the pads and hangars damaged on every single ship but one in the fleet?

This might be useful for professional training, with damage based on known casualty rates, etc., but for public play I suspect it's more frustration than fun.
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

So in General, sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone, but I was sent on an emergency deployment which had me away for a little over a week (go back next week as well).
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Just setup my start position. Initial feedback, bear in mind I haven't pressed start yet :-)
Spelling - assassination

Thanks!
Can locked reference points not be hidden ?

Not that I know of but sometimes I wish you could.
For the logged losses, rather than mess around trying to purge them, why not build them into the backstory. Either aggression from Iran through extensive mining operations. Or IRGC Rib attacks... etc... You could take the line that the US were able to rescue crews, so the "line" wasn't crossed and no further action was taken. Or just sink a couple of Iranian Fast attack boats and have them listed as backstory.

I just don't think that is necessary, I just put the info in there so people know, the situation, the scenario is zeroed out. I just knew there would be questions.
Feedback - All civilian shipping seems to be visible. Would it not be more challenging to have them hidden and discoverable. Gives us something extra to do in patrolling and IDing vessels at the get go. Perhaps a % of them Hidden and Unknown ?

In the day of AIS that is deliberate. Everyone knows were everyone else is for safety. I have transited with sailboats and we would never dream of turning AIS off!
Lots of good units to mess with, but could we get some british T-23's or T-45's they have played a major role recently in securing the straights so it seems odd not to have Brits out there. They base out of Oman and have minesweepers too. As well as Aircraft available?

THIS IS THE SMALLER SCENARIO! I had them in before and took them out, reason being is it was just getting too big, the West too overwhelming and I wanted to showcase more GCC assets. Truly if Iran ever really tried this it would be a short and lopsided conflict. Yes Iran would get in some blows, but by the end of a week most of their units would be removed from the chess table. Hence the reliance on SRBMs/IRBMs.
Shiraz - Airbase in Iran has Ammo Bunkers places around a single unit Airfield. However zooming in on the sentinel 2 Map textures shows the placement of the unit cards to be odd. Ammo bunkers etc across the middle of the the aprons. Not a big issue, but a detail one. All other Opfor Airports and bases in contrast look well laid out

SOOOOOO this scenario has been a year in the design, off and on, one reason why it got so big. unfortunately that base was built before the Sentinal 2 Maps were available. As Iran was computer only didn't think it a big deal to go back and move stuff around.
Love the placement of the Bandar Abbas SAMs they match perfectly what I can see on Google maps... Nice - shame the Sentinal 2 textures are such low resolution.

As much as possible with open source intel tried to get the SAM Sites correct as they are so important.
I like the approach to damage on vessels. It's a nice mechanic to play around with. I haven't got started yet, but I do have a concern than as the component damage adds up to an OVERALL damage the vessels integrity is compromised, when in reality it would still be fully sea worthy and fightable. Is there a way to knock systems down without taking way core DPs?

I may have to go back and clear this out [:o]
Pre-start - initial impression of the Locked Mine sweep area, which I've converted to a mine sweep mission. Is that it is very large for the small number of MCM's to sweep - I appreciate mine density may be sparse (?) but it does look very large - also seems to extend to well within the Territorial waters of Iran along the north and eastern sides. Is that an issue ?

In the real world Iran would be dropping drift mines, in Command we don't have drift mines, thus a large mined area to make it more realistic to mine spread and dispersed placement.

Anyway here we go...

Thanks. BTW as of writing this have not seen comments below, so I just addressed your points. Thanks for working on it. In all honesty I am thinking of withdrawing it from submission, just to many issues that Command A/I just can't handle in a tight waterway like this. Channels are narrow and the ships just can't seem to navigate them no matter what I try.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Ships coming out of Bahrain are getting stuck. The path finding is not good enough to navigate them safely. Could you start them on patrol ? or anchored further out to sea ?

Yes was thinking about this myself. Even with a No Navigation zone the ships/aircraft keep beating against them trying to get through them. AI Suggestion, if a ship can't transit an area due to land/No Navigation Zone have it's next course check 30 degrees clockwise and repeat until it can find a clear path around the obstruction. The no naigation zone is almost useless for helping to direct AI ship paths.
An alternative approach would be to build non-navigation zones when the sea floor is less than 10ft deep... it seems to be the island to the north that is most troublesome

Tried, play in Editor Mode and watch the Iranians moving out of Bandar Abbas! VERY FRUSTRATING! See reply above.
Just learnt that the P8 has no MAD... mad

I know, they fly over my house every day, sometimes miss the old P-3Cs!
despite damage to systems being isolated AWAY from engines and propulsion - the damage seems to have caused significant speed penalties for all ships. e.g. RDNV Al-Seeb Z 20 which doesn't seem to be able to navigate at more than 9 knots

Yes this is an issue. One thought for future versions of Command is to have the designer able to make a system down for maintenance/repair and have them provide a time/probability of return to service. Same is true for aircraft! Example it would be nice if you could mark a P3C down for maintenance and have a 30% probability of return to service beginning at 12:00 utc. Probably could do it with LUA but seems like it should be a core capability to me. We all know what opinions are like!
Subs are appearing from bushehr and banda abbas. Surfaced. Easy to track

Welcome to Iran's geography problem. Their channels are tight with shallow water around them. Don't ask USN bubbleheads how far offshore of Kings Bay NSB they have to go before submerging!
MCMs coming out of Bahrain are going to take >1 day to get to the Straights

Yeah, that's were they are but could move them based on Intel sniffing something up with the Amphib refit.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Damaged ships lose speed due to progressive damage as well as damage to propulsion.

Yes, likely going to clear the damage. Please see my comments on this above.

- A couple of reasons why subs would be on the surface.
First is they're set to a patrol which has active radar on.

I grouped them in with the surface vessels and turned on Radar, will separate into two missions! Good catch! Thanks!
Second is they're in water too shallow to successfully submerge.

the Channel issue noted above.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

One idea about making ships navigate safely out of port is to move the port pie-wedge into a good spot and then make no-nav zones to force ships to move through the port allowance.

Yes I mentioned this with respect to Bandar Abbas. That said even the No Navigation Zones don't helps as the AI stubbornly bangs its head against the zone trying to cross it. Play it in AI Mode and watch vessels leaving/moving into Bandar Abbas.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Yep this would help Bandar Abbas...


Nope, not unless it is moved to an island, see above.
As I can see a whole load got stuck up there.


Frustrating!

I'm pretty much done.
Recommendation would be some over-lapping fields of fire on the S-300 systems. None of them were that much of a nuisance and the ones to the north and east are just a waste I think. Perhaps just put them where they are needed?

I placed them we the open source intel said the Iran's placed them. So I am trying to, as much as possible, apply a real world situation.
There didn't seem to be that many Iranian aircraft ?

There aren't! Allowing for a 40-50% down rate for them (Sorry, I don't see them being better than that). BTW the Western aircraft are about 1/2 of what is actually available.
The mines didn't cook off until ages after the Minelayers had dropped em and were all destroyed (pretty much in the first 10m of action) - which caused me some headaches. I presume if I had left the game running it would have damaged loads more ships as despite my "Desperate Hails" over the guard channel none of the green container ships seemed to take any of my minesweepers' advice to steer south off the main shipping lane. I suppose I could have created No-navigation zones ? Is it possible to do that and have them influence the Indi ships ? Might be a nice mechanic

An issue I struggled with. Real world tens to hundreds of vessels would have heaved too and been sitting on either side of the Straits until they were cleared, or diverted into cleared lanes Without totally scripting the players role, something I am really trying to avoid, I'm not sure how to do that. I though about having later arriving vessels do just that but then, as the player, why clear the Straits in the time frame of the scenario?

Anyway good fun and a nice way to spend a rainy weekend. :-) Cheers
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

I'd agree about the damage. I'm definitely on the micro-management end of the spectrum, but this is a level of granularity even I don't want to contend with. Which ship was missing exactly which system? How has their performance changed, and how does this affect their use? How the heck does a helicopter pad suffer a maintenance failure, and why are the pads and hangars damaged on every single ship but one in the fleet?

This might be useful for professional training, with damage based on known casualty rates, etc., but for public play I suspect it's more frustration than fun.

Agreed! In a smaller scenario it might be manageable and interesting, with this many vessels not so much!
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

Post by BeirutDude »

Edit: didn't withdraw, play test version 2.0 is below...

So looking at the situation in the Editor, it looks like I can rebuild the systems but that doesn't zero out the damage. For now going to withdraw the scenario and maybe I'll have time to come back to it over the summer.

I will say, it is a great example of "Command Scenario Mission Creep!"

Beginnings about fall of 2018, "What if Iran mined the Straits?"

1. Iran mines straits, layers quickly blown away, add frigates!
2. Frigates quickly blown away, add aircraft and SAMs near Straits
3. Airbases vulnerable add more SAMS and BTW if Iran was closing straits they would use midget subs and small boats add them
4. IRGC boats based out of islands add them
5. West needs to neutralize islands add bombers
6. If West uses bombers Iran counters with IRBMs add them and bases must be real not Single Airfields
7. IRBMs have S-300 and IHawks protecting them add them
8. If GCC is cut off their economies collapse add GCC vessels and aircraft.
9. Oh crap too big eliminate some of the RN and Western ships/aircraft!
10. Realization, scenario is unworkable and the port too hard for ships to get into and out of.

Lessons...
1. Life in the Littoral, be glad you're not COM Fifth Fleet!
2. Go back to KISS! [:D]

So Bottom line is I'm going to withdraw it and maybe come back to it over the summer to see if I can save it. That said, started and stopped it about five times before it got here.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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