proficiency check

The sequel of the legendary wargame with a complete graphics and interface overhaul, major new gameplay and design features such as full naval combat modelling, improved supply handling, numerous increases to scenario parameters to better support large scenarios, and integrated PBEM++.
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carll11
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proficiency check

Post by carll11 »

I am failing 'proficiency' checks it seems every 2-3 turns( example- the Vietnam invasion scen.) ........I have read the manual, but I am missing something, would someone please provide a an overview of this proficiency issue, re; how to stay out of it, manage it etc.?
Thank you.
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Hellen_slith
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RE: proficiency check

Post by Hellen_slith »

ORIGINAL: carll11

I am failing 'proficiency' checks it seems every 2-3 turns( example- the Vietnam invasion scen.) ........I have read the manual, but I am missing something, would someone please provide a an overview of this proficiency issue, re; how to stay out of it, manage it etc.?
Thank you.

Better minds than mine can probably address this issue, but it seems to be referred to in section 14.2 of the manual.

I haven't found much in the manual about how to avoid the issue but it seems to have something to do w/ the Force Proficiency Value (that I think is set by the scenario designer? not sure ....)

This is a mystery to me, too ... e.g. in my last turn in Tobruk '41, I failed this check after only one round of combat and very little movement except for attacking units. Seems to be a dice roll. Always a chance to fail, and not much you can do to mitigate, but I will look at some old manuals to see if they offer any insight ....



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mdanz
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RE: proficiency check

Post by mdanz »

The silence on this one is deafening.
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Hellen_slith
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RE: proficiency check

Post by Hellen_slith »

ORIGINAL: mdanz

The silence on this one is deafening.

I'll bet that Mr. Cross might have insight ...
or maybe this is an area that is intended to be and remains mysterious?

I (for one) find that not pushing my troops too hard,
will help at combat check.

OTOH, as w/ Tobruk '41 last move, it just hits.
Not sure.

Maybe it is one of the game mechanics, that says, roll the dice?
And you never know when it might hit?

Not sure ....
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: proficiency check

Post by Curtis Lemay »

This has been discussed plenty of times before, but for now, I can only find this statement of mine in the Battlefield Timestamp article:

"(note that Force Proficiency Failures are not changed by the BTS system – they are legitimate checks on force plans based upon how organized the force is)"

Remember that TOAW is IGOUGO. Your forces get to move while your enemy's forces must stand and wait. If there is no check on the exploitation of that fact, every force would get to carve the enemy up like a surgical strike. That should only be possible for the very best forces. Crummier forces should be well incentivized to plan for less complex combat sequences. Force Proficiency failures do just that. If you've got a crummier force, plan on fewer combat phases by expecting more than one combat round to get expended per phase, especially as you near the end of the turn.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
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r6kunz
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RE: proficiency check

Post by r6kunz »

Bob, thanks for chiming in. I think your assessment checks on the IGOUGO system is spot-on. (I like the word "uncentivized")

As Molkte said in 1871:
The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle.

and has been since frequently paraphrased:
No plan survives contact with the enemy

I fear some players are frustrated when their plan is truncated by the gods of war.
I welcome/tolerate the Proficiency Failures and Variable Initiative to equalize my ambitious plan. I play/design for historical accuracy and not game results.
Just my 2 dong worth




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Vietnam Combat Operations by Stéphane MOUTIN LUYAT aka Boonierat.
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Lobster
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RE: proficiency check

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: carll11

I am failing 'proficiency' checks it seems every 2-3 turns( example- the Vietnam invasion scen.) ........I have read the manual, but I am missing something, would someone please provide a an overview of this proficiency issue, re; how to stay out of it, manage it etc.?
Thank you.

Do not break down your units if you don't have to. It will increase the chance of a failed formation proficiency check.
Do not grind down your units in combat if you don't have to. The more losses you take the greater the chance of a failed formation proficiency check.
Keep your units health as green as possible. Trying to keep readiness and supply as high as possible makes a difference. You cannot continually move units with total disregard. There are cumulative consequences. Consider them as people that get tired and equipment that breaks.
Unfortunately there are random rolls that you cannot control.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
cathar1244
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RE: proficiency check

Post by cathar1244 »

Just my 2 dong worth

Let us know when you find a reliable supplier of Trente-trois. [;)]

Cheers
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: proficiency check

Post by Curtis Lemay »

Players may want to peruse my article on round management here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2231066

It discusses some strategies that may be useful for crummy forces to employ.

Be aware that it is quite old, and some of it may be obsoleted by the BTS thingy.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
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carll11
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RE: proficiency check

Post by carll11 »

First, Thank you all for responding. I will give Curtiss' thread especially and the rest of the the advice serious thought.

I will say in the situation which got me to the point of making this comment I totally get the reorg thing, especially for units that have been roughly handled and arent exactly enthusiastic (Italians [;)] )and that a part of this game system I like as it adds a realism not found in other games.

But the situation that the final blown check found me in made me postal. The units has been pulled ( 80% intact as whole orgs too) from combat and had been sitting under C&C, fortified, untouched, no combat zip nada for 3 full turns ( outside Derna) .....they were at approx. 50% Prof. and bam enemy shows up, ( NOT engaged) and my whole Div. goes orange, of course the brits blew right threw them as they're def. at 50% value as orange etc etc ...just seemed way to arbitrary to me.
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TheeWarLord
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RE: proficiency check

Post by TheeWarLord »

I also experienced an increase of failed proficiency checks on a scenario I often played. Interestingly, it was two turns in a row on the same combat round. This a scenario with a 70% proficiency force, I have often squeezed numerous battle rounds, and now just two battle rounds = 40% used, and turn over, twice in a row, never happend before.
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