The Art of Conflict 2.0

The sequel of the legendary wargame with a complete graphics and interface overhaul, major new gameplay and design features such as full naval combat modelling, improved supply handling, numerous increases to scenario parameters to better support large scenarios, and integrated PBEM++.
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larryfulkerson
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The Art of Conflict 2.0

Post by larryfulkerson »

I think that Matrix/Slitherene has probably spent a pretty penny getting the source code from Norman and, yeah, they probably won't want to give that up. So the answer might be to start with a blank sheet of paper and start an open source project that does what TOAW does now. But in a more concurrent language instead of C. Maybe Python. Or Java. Maybe something that a lot of programmers already know to hit the ground running. And YES a different name for the game engine. I'm wondering how many people we could count on to do a project like that. We'd need an AI expert I'm guessing. What would we call it? I'm thinking SimWar has already been taken. How about Universal Game Engine 5.0
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Simon Edmonds
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by Simon Edmonds »

How about The Art of Conflict?
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by larryfulkerson »

ORIGINAL: Simon Edmonds
How about The Art of Conflict?
I like that a lot. That's good. TAoC, cool. We need something that hints that our product is capable to simulating almost anything at all from any time period because I suspect that may be one of our goals for the game engine. Keep those good ideas coming.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by larryfulkerson »

I established a Facebook group for us and you can find it here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/571381640314323/
I'm not going to be impressed with science until I can download a waffle.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

I'm not a facebook user and intend never to be. Facebook is a hated medium to some of us.
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Zovs
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by Zovs »

same here on facebook and mark zookercrookenbachstealingyouridentityandheisnotahumanbeing
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DD696
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

Agree. Feeling a bit lonely now after stirring the pot finding the truth of the matter.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I don't use Facebook either. I would suggest that in order to see if there is any interest, maybe run a thread in the General Forum here.

If I understand correctly what Al Sousa [WarPlan] said, it took him two years to write that game using Unity. I know we have a great community of selfless contributors here, but I don't know how many volunteer 'coders' or [whatever you call those folks] there are. Also, I have recently talked to some others about such a project and one of the items that came out of that discussion was an outline that would be needed by coders in order to know what they are doing. This seems like a huge task in itself.

I am willing to participate and contribute whatever I can though, because its depressingly obvious that what we have now and have had for many years is completely disappointing.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by pz501 »

I'm not a Facebook user either, and like a few others have said never will be.

Other than that I'm willing to help out any way I can. Not a programmer though.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

I'll volunteer. I used to be a good COBOL programmer about 27 years ago, then played with basic for a few years on my pc's. I'm sure that was a helpful skill back then.

Now I have time to spend on whatever I desire and this could be something very worthwhile. I also seem to have a useful trait for fomenting a rebellion of sorts.

We need to have somebody step up and be the honcho for such a project otherwise it is going to run in all directions.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by larryfulkerson »

So many of you don't like the Facebook idea so I went to GitHub and established an account for us to use. It's here:
https://github.com/DonaldTrump240/TheArtofConflict

Please let me know if you guys have a problem getting to it etc. I think I did it right, so maybe we're on our way.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by Menschenfresser »

Also not a facebook user.

But I am a programmer and AI researcher.

A couple of things:
- This is a huge undertaking that will require multiple talents for 1000s of hours.
- Cannot do this through a BB or Facebook group. It will require regular face-to-face meetings (via internet, I'd assume). Too easy to be an outlier personality when the only mechanism for communication is "Post Reply".
- I wouldn't even bother talking about programming until a core group of dedicated people comes together and designs the thing. That means hammering out the mechanisms, the math and scope for as much of it as possible in as much detail as possible. Easy to say TOAW is broken; hard to say how it should be fixed...and have everyone agree.
- Must be cross-platform. It has been slow, but fewer and fewer developers believe a Windows only release is all they need. Matrix/Slitherine is a bit behind in this area. I think this is doubly true for independent projects.
- Develop the group first. Start regular meetings to draft the idea. Only once you've come together and feel confident the majority are in for the long haul then look for programmers, artists, etc. I'd go with a Patreon model so that everyone in the community can contribute. A constant flow of cash is a base line motivator to keep working.

My two cents.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

Perhaps the start up should not immediately become divisive by using the name of our commander in chief.
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76mm
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by 76mm »

What @Menschenfresser says makes a great deal of sense.

Also, I would expect that ultimately some limited $$ might be required, for artwork, specialized software, etc; if necessary at the appropriate stage we could set up a Kickstarter project for that.

I'm on Github, but don't see any way to start conversations?

My understanding is that C# + Unity is a pretty popular game development platform, but I have to say that most of the Unity games I've seen have been a bit blah-looking.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

Is this to be a for profit undertaking?

Is this to be done as a labor of love for the game concept?

Will this game be distributed without cost to whoever wants it?

Will those who want the game have to pay for it?

Does anyone require cash payments to work on this concept?

Are you willing to volunteer your time?
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by pz501 »

Maybe a good place to move to for discussion and planning purposes? http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php

If you scroll down, you'll see they even have a section called "Game Forge" which looks like it's for game design and development discussions. Both professional and amateur.

Just a thought. I believe the faster we get off of Matrix's turf (unless they specifically OK it) the better. This is their territory after all, and this is a bit of an insurrection so to speak.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by DD696 »

That looks very appropriate for discussing this concept.
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76mm
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by 76mm »

Actually, might make sense to have the initial discussions on some public game-related forum such as grogheads rather than github to see if anyone else might be interested.
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by pz501 »

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

So many of you don't like the Facebook idea so I went to GitHub and established an account for us to use. It's here:
https://github.com/DonaldTrump240/TheArtofConflict

Please let me know if you guys have a problem getting to it etc. I think I did it right, so maybe we're on our way.
Larry, I can get to it with no problem, but can you rename it?

Speaking only for myself I think we need to keep all controversy and politics out of this. The naming is "cute" but might stir up a little trouble. Doesn't matter what your beliefs are, we should check them at the door.

Further, not everyone is from the USA, and I'll bet they couldn't care less about domestic politics and issues.

I know you don't mean anything by the naming, but I'm just sayin'....
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RE: Universal Game Engine 5.0

Post by tomlowshang »

ORIGINAL: pz501
Larry, I can get to it with no problem, but can you rename it?

Speaking only for myself I think we need to keep all controversy and politics out of this. The naming is "cute" but might stir up a little trouble. Doesn't matter what your beliefs are, we should check them at the door.

Further, not everyone is from the USA, and I'll bet they couldn't care less about domestic politics and issues.

I know you don't mean anything by the naming, but I'm just sayin'....
That unfortunate choice is Larry's username which cannot be changed on github, AFAICT. The project name by itself is fine, but combined with the username, I strongly suspect many developers will avoid the project. I suggest some else create the project, since nothing's been done yet, but Larry has to delete the project if you want to use the same name.
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