Midway must be good movie.

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Alpha77
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Alpha77 »

TMTSNBN
...

....was probably more a drama/romance/comedy categories movie from what I heard (have not seen it)...

Just like The Thin Red Line which most here do not seem to like also (contrary to me) has the Guadalcanal action more as a back drop to explore deeper topics so it would be also not 100% in the war or history movie genre....at least the acting and camera work in TTRL can be admired even if one do not like the topics outside of war action.
jagsdomain
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by jagsdomain »

Yes. RL storys are amazing. USS Johnston vs Japan. I meet a B17 tail gunner that watched his plane dive into the ground and he could not get out. His tail section floted to the ground. Another B17 gunner that landed in the snow with no shoot and he was fine.
RL storys are crazy but that movie and the idea that this guy went from fighters to bomber.
It is the movie that shall never be named
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

It had nothing to do with Ben it had to do with a modern CV battle group as the IJN.
It was the plot of us pilot gets transferred to RAF shot down over England picked up by the French underground then transfers to Pearl. After attack he volunteers with Doolittle for his raid.
Yea it was bad
ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Is it OK to say never go to a movie with Ben Affleck in it?

Never underestimate just how crazy a real story can be.

How about a guy who realizes his career is going nowhere just before we get into the war, leaves the Navy to join the American Volunteer Group, runs up a score building a solid reputation, comes home and gets sidelined by an officer with a grudge over his having left in the first place, bypasses the turd, gets back into the war, gets sent to the south Pacific, cobbles together his own squadron from spare planes, runs up a score, builds a reputation becoming a top ace, eventually gets shot down near Rabaul and and finishes the war in POW camp?
fcooke
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by fcooke »

Crazy stuff happens at times. I thought the B-17 tail gunner was completely shot off the rest of the plane and somehow pirouted down to the ground - but maybe a different event.

IIRC there was a similar event with an airliner in the 70s where a young girl survived by being in the tail end of a plane - sole survivor.
Ddog
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Ddog »

It is funny they portray the director John Ford as being at Midway, because he is quoted as saying "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good movie." The movie was not good and borderline factual.

It was actually factual in the some of the events. But things like no fighter squadrons on the American CV's really ruined it for me. The dialog is laughable at some points. If you like TMTSNBN then you will like this movie.

In summary, if the "how" matters to you, then you won't like it. For instance, in the movie, Pearl Harbor is attacked and the Arizona is sunk. But these things were not done as they truly were in history. If you are going to see a shoot em up like Independence Day, you'll enjoy the movie.
I'd rather be lucky than good.

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rkr1958
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain
No spoilers!
Sorry ... but I just found this funny. Battle of Midway ... no spoilers.
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Big B »

+1
ORIGINAL: Ddog

It is funny they portray the director John Ford as being at Midway, because he is quoted as saying "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good movie." The movie was not good and borderline factual.

It was actually factual in the some of the events. But things like no fighter squadrons on the American CV's really ruined it for me. The dialog is laughable at some points. If you like TMTSNBN then you will like this movie.

In summary, if the "how" matters to you, then you won't like it. For instance, in the movie, Pearl Harbor is attacked and the Arizona is sunk. But these things were not done as they truly were in history. If you are going to see a shoot em up like Independence Day, you'll enjoy the movie.

I saw the movie today, and to tell you the truth - I was shocked at how good it was - for 2019.
If it had one glaring drawback it was the modern way special effects are done... but that seems to be the standard for ALL action sequences these days (video game generation).
And make no mistake, it was written and shot to appeal to today's general audiences that know nothing of history, and expects action sequences to look like the MCU, or Star Wars, or JJ Abram's Star Trek movies....purely farcical comic book stuff.
If you can ignore that aspect, the movie essentially told the story of Enterprise's Bombing 6, and the key players and events of the Pacific War from PH to Midway - and did an incredible job of it...for a 2019 movie.

I saw it at a matinee for $6, and was happy with it. I don't think it's really comparable to TMTSNBN, and compared to the 1970's Midway movie - I think it's head and shoulders above that p.o.s.

B
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Big B »

As a follow up, I thought the cast was good, and looking up the characters (the military ones - not the few wives) I see no big inaccuracies in the portrayals, for instance John Ford was indeed lightly wounded during the Midway Island attack, Intelligence Office E. Layton was indeed fluent in Japanese and met with Admiral Yamamoto several times before the war while spending three years posted in Japan, It showed the two unfortunate naval airmen picked up by a Japanese DD and executed by being tossed overboard. Probably The principal character was Dick Best - who appears to be one of only two dive bomber pilots in history to planted bombs on two different enemy carriers in a single day.
Furthermore, 10 years ago I was in regular correspondence with a living member of Torpedo 6, and he related to me that on the evening of Dec 7th the TBD's of Torpedo 6 were sent out armed with torpedoes and after a flight of 550 miles came back aboard Enterprise still carrying their fish, when one torpedo came loose on landing and went careening across the flight deck...ONE man managed to wrestle it to a stop - just as portrayed in the movie.
And the submarine Nautilus finally got it's due in a movie - for the critical part it played in the battle.

So yeah, if you can get past the over-the-top pace of action in several sequences - a pretty good movie (except the Lexington was not a Yorktown class carrier...dumb mistake when it's all cgi).

B
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Big B

As a follow up, I thought the cast was good, and looking up the characters (the military ones - not the few wives) I see no big inaccuracies in the portrayals, for instance John Ford was indeed lightly wounded during the Midway Island attack, Intelligence Office E. Layton was indeed fluent in Japanese and met with Admiral Yamamoto several times before the war while spending three years posted in Japan, It showed the two unfortunate naval airmen picked up by a Japanese DD and executed by being tossed overboard. Probably The principal character was Dick Best - who appears to be one of only two dive bomber pilots in history to planted bombs on two different enemy carriers in a single day.
Furthermore, 10 years ago I was in regular correspondence with a living member of Torpedo 6, and he related to me that on the evening of Dec 7th the TBD's of Torpedo 6 were sent out armed with torpedoes and after a flight of 550 miles came back aboard Enterprise still carrying their fish, when one torpedo came loose on landing and went careening across the flight deck...ONE man managed to wrestle it to a stop - just as portrayed in the movie.

So yeah, if you can get past the over-the-top pace of action in several sequences - a pretty good movie (except the Lexington was not a Yorktown class carrier...dumb mistake when it's all cgi).

B
My comment about the torpedo skidding across the deck was "See, there's the evidence that the torpedoes don't work!" (meaning it should have gone off).
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Big B »

I'm no Torpedo bomber pilot...but I think the torpedo has to be armed on dropping before it can go off...otherwise what would keep it from going off during flight? I don't know...
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Big B
...
Furthermore, 10 years ago I was in regular correspondence with a living member of Torpedo 6, and he related to me that on the evening of Dec 7th the TBD's of Torpedo 6 were sent out armed with torpedoes and after a flight of 550 miles came back aboard Enterprise still carrying their fish, when one torpedo came loose on landing and went careening across the flight deck...ONE man managed to wrestle it to a stop - just as portrayed in the movie.

B
My comment about the torpedo skidding across the deck was "See, there's the evidence that the torpedoes don't work!" (meaning it should have gone off).
LeeChard
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by LeeChard »

Torpedoes armed themselves after traveling a short distance so they couldn't accidentally go off. Same with sub launches.
spence
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by spence »

Torpedoes armed themselves after traveling a short distance so they couldn't accidentally go off.



I think it depended on the motor of the torpedo/propellors turning a certain number of revolutions. They actually showed a TBD starting the motor on its torpedo prior to dropping it (IIRC the dud that hit the Japanese ship during the Marshalls raid).

For surface/sub-surface launches the torpedo had to run a certain number of yards for the revolutions to reach the specified number. IIRC the USS Laffey launched several torpedoes at HIJMS Hiei that failed to arm on the night of 14 Nov 1942.
fcooke
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by fcooke »

I think it was 400-500 yards.....

But Laffey was so close the the that the Hiei that the latter could not depress guns to fire on the Laffey - that is way close.
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rustysi
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by rustysi »

RL storys are crazy but that movie and the idea that this guy went from fighters to bomber.

IIRC, Best was a fighter jockey who went to bombers.[:'(]
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spence
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by spence »

IIRC, Best was a fighter jockey who went to bombers.

Wade McClusky went from fighters to bombers (F4F-3 to SBD) when he took over as Commander Air Group. Pretty sure his bomb missed but IIRC all long-term USN pilots trained to fly everything the USN flew pre-war. During the war the training concentrated on a particular type.
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by GaryChildress »

I saw a couple previews/trailers for Midway and some of the action scenes look a little over the top like an Indiana Jones movie or something. Also, something about the acting in the clips seemed to make the characters so larger than life that they seem to lose all the characteristics of being real human beings. I'm not much of a fan of the Hollywoodization of history. I'd rather see a documentary than see a Hollywood representation of a RL battle in WW2.

EDIT: But it's nice to see Best get his credit. I don't recall him being represented in the 1970s version of the movie.
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by GaryChildress »

I guess the main thing that puts me off with the trailers is that they also seem to paint the picture that the movie is mostly centered around a single character, in this case, Richard Best. He's definitely one of the great heroes of the battle but I'd rather see it approached along the lines of A Bridge Too Far or Battle of Britain where there is largely no central character but rather we get a sense of how huge the endeavor was with multiple characters, each portraying one of the MANY heroes of the battle. Also wouldn't mind seeing at least a couple leads on the Japanese side of things.

But I suppose it's good for an evening with popcorn and a drink.
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by Big B »

Actually having seen the movie, I can tell you categorically that the movie is not the Dick Best story by a long shot.
Follow this IMDB link of the cast, and you will see how many historical characters appear in the film - and all the principal characters get their amount of screen time - certainly enough to tell their tales.
But the emphasis of the action does follow the Enterprise air group (Bombing 6/Scouting 6/Torpedo 6) when not delving into the larger story.

What the film is NOT is a realistic portrayal of WW2 aerial combat - as I said above...it features modern over-the-top action scenes that seems to be today's norm unfortunately.
But the film is far better than it's combat scenes, and frankly I'm surprised these days that a story like this can still be made today.
It's also Not a "woke" film thank God... no angst over modern sensibilities of Hollywood.
Unfortunately it still includes the mythical Yamamoto "sleeping giant" statement.

It's worth seeing...

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

I guess the main thing that puts me off with the trailers is that they also seem to paint the picture that the movie is mostly centered around a single character, in this case, Richard Best. He's definitely one of the great heroes of the battle but I'd rather see it approached along the lines of A Bridge Too Far or Battle of Britain where there is largely no central character but rather we get a sense of how huge the endeavor was with multiple characters, each portraying one of the MANY heroes of the battle. Also wouldn't mind seeing at least a couple leads on the Japanese side of things.

But I suppose it's good for an evening with popcorn and a drink.
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by BBfanboy »

One of my biggest peeves about the CGI is that they went with the Hollywood orange gasoline explosions for every bomb hit. Real military explosives go off with an incandescent flash followed by dirty black/grey smoke. The carriers themselves would have had gasoline fires break out but only after a few seconds interval after the bomb explosion, when oxygen flowed back into the area of the bomb hit.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
GaryChildress
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by GaryChildress »

I was scrolling through reviews of the movie and came across this: https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/ ... at-midway/

This is about as scathing as a review can get I think. Interesting.
LLT0407
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RE: Midway must be good movie.

Post by LLT0407 »

pretty good acting.. tell some parts of the story that was not told in the original but then fails to to tell the full story.. and misses some important facts

6 out of 10
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