3rd Reich

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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AlbertN
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by AlbertN »

I tried that kind of game - I believe the latest incarnation is by Matrix Games, Strategic War in Europe.

Which is a -shit- game! First and foremost due to the "logistic" model of supplies, which is silly.
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Jagdtiger14
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Strategic War in Europe looks very cartoonish to me. On the other hand, Commander - Europe at War looks interesting and uses the same engine as Commander - The Great War, which I am interested in buying if it goes on sale. My question is, does any one play the game?...will I have human opponents to play against? If it goes on sale, I might buy it as well.

Maybe all the Commander games should go on sale as one big pack?...hint hint...
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
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Ostwindflak
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Ostwindflak »

Jagdtiger14,

There are some people active on the Slitherine forums that still play Commander: Europe At War multiplayer. Could probably find someone willing to play over there.
Numdydar
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Strategic War in Europe looks very cartoonish to me. On the other hand, Commander - Europe at War looks interesting and uses the same engine as Commander - The Great War, which I am interested in buying if it goes on sale. My question is, does any one play the game?...will I have human opponents to play against? If it goes on sale, I might buy it as well.

Maybe all the Commander games should go on sale as one big pack?...hint hint...

I have all the Commander games and they are really good. The WW1 game is one of the hardest I have played as the Central Powers. The AI does not make the dumb mistakes the RL Allies did [:D]

I played the WWII game all the way through with each side once. But have not played again as the reply value just was not there for me. But I still feel I got my monies worth. Of course I still feel that way about MWiF too so take that comment as you will [;)]
AlbertN
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by AlbertN »

Usually I find the AI of any grand strategic game somehow not on par (and I hate to play with the AI "cheating" - as per having extra resources and whatnot).

Pratically in my eyes any strategic game (of these turn based, but not like Panzer General!) requires human opponents to play against; and ontop of that strict rules to avoid gamey tactics.

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Jagdtiger14
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

I completely 100% agree with Cohen on this! AI for me is only useful to learn the game...I could care less about it, my desire in any game is to play it vs human opponents.

Thank you for your info Numdydar and Ostwindflak...makes me feel better if I buy them! Now I'll watch for a sale[8D]
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
Rosseau
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Rosseau »

I've played the latest C:EAW MP, which is unusual for me. It was good for a while, but obviously not as good as OOB Pacific or MWIF of course. It might taste a bit watered down to you, but it does move quickly. The WW1 game played MP during the "buggy" times and was even better before we gave up. I'm sure it's fixed now.
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Ostwindflak
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Ostwindflak »

So Bo,

How is your campaign in Third Reich progressing?
bo
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

So Bo,

How is your campaign in Third Reich progressing?

My dear Herr Ostwindflak appreciate you asking about 3rd Reich, one of the wonderful aspects of having an AI like 3rd Reich does, is that when you are getting thumped like I was on Friday you just simply turn it off and try another day [;)]

In reality though, you mentioned World at War, of course you meant the board game and we all understood that [:D] Shame on you, now you got me playing Grigsby World at War and I am getting thumped playing that AI, the ego keeps going down and down. There must be a game out there with an AI I can beat.[&:]

crussdaddy was right I am the Goofy General [:(]

I am closely watching a game on Slitherine called "Order of Battle Pacific"
looks a lot like Panzer Corp but in the Pacific area. It seems to be very well done with a lot more going on game wise than Panzer Corp. There are about 10 to 12 demonstrations on all aspects of the game so there is no need for a demo.

I do not know if it can be bought through Matrix though. I would rather support Matrix but then again they might be one and the same.

Bo
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warspite1
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

So Bo,

How is your campaign in Third Reich progressing?

My dear Herr Ostwindflak appreciate you asking about 3rd Reich, one of the wonderful aspects of having an AI like 3rd Reich does, is that when you are getting thumped like I was on Friday you just simply turn it off and try another day [;)]

In reality though, you mentioned World at War, of course you meant the board game and we all understood that [:D] Shame on you, now you got me playing Grigsby World at War and I am getting thumped playing that AI, the ego keeps going down and down. There must be a game out there with an AI I can beat.

crussdaddy was right I am the Goofy General [:(]

I am closely watching a game on Slitherine called "Order of Battle Pacific"
looks a lot like Panzer Corp but in the Pacific area. It seems to be very well done with a lot more going on game wise than Panzer Corp. There are about 10 to 12 demonstrations on all aspects of the game so there is no need for a demo.

I do not know if it can be bought through Matrix though. I would rather support Matrix but then again they might be one and the same.

Bo
warspite1

bo they are one and the same. I am thinking about this game too - if and when they get NATO counters in place.
As a wise man once asked:

War - What is it good for?
bo
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

So Bo,

How is your campaign in Third Reich progressing?

My dear Herr Ostwindflak appreciate you asking about 3rd Reich, one of the wonderful aspects of having an AI like 3rd Reich does, is that when you are getting thumped like I was on Friday you just simply turn it off and try another day [;)]

In reality though, you mentioned World at War, of course you meant the board game and we all understood that [:D] Shame on you, now you got me playing Grigsby World at War and I am getting thumped playing that AI, the ego keeps going down and down. There must be a game out there with an AI I can beat.

crussdaddy was right I am the Goofy General [:(]

I am closely watching a game on Slitherine called "Order of Battle Pacific"
looks a lot like Panzer Corp but in the Pacific area. It seems to be very well done with a lot more going on game wise than Panzer Corp. There are about 10 to 12 demonstrations on all aspects of the game so there is no need for a demo.

I do not know if it can be bought through Matrix though. I would rather support Matrix but then again they might be one and the same.

Bo
warspite1

bo they are one and the same. I am thinking about this game too - if and when they get NATO counters in place.

Actually warspite I think the sprites are the charm of the game. They are very well done, the explosions look good, the detail is there and the game has many added features compared to Panzer Corp, but I also like Nato counters.

They have had some problems and I am reading the forums closely to see how they address these problems. It has a decent AI from what I have seen so far and you know me and that AI feeling [:(]

The demonstrations are very well done even though some of the moderators talk too fast or too much [;)]

Bo
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belechannas
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by belechannas »

I just finished my first game (1939/42 scenario) of Third Reich PC.

It is fun, in a retro sort of way. The AI isn't terrible, but the difficulty setting is essentially just multiplying the computer player's resources.

I let the computer play the Axis, with the AI set to the maximum difficulty. It turns out this equates to:

1) Double economic resources (BRPs) for AI major powers
2) Something like double the force pools for AI major powers. In the 3rd Reich family of games, the force pools are extremely important in terms of tuning. When we were developing the research system for A3R/Rising Sun/A World at War, even a couple extra units in the first part of the game could have significant effects. Suffice it to say, we never considered anything like doubling them...
3) The player major powers get 0% BRP growth rate. This would REALLY make a campaign game on this setting tough for an Allied player (and probably an Axis player as well). The US and Russian economies in the original Third Reich only expand by the growth mechanism, so setting their growth rates to zero means they will be stuck around 1939 levels even in the late war. Major handicap there. (Advanced Third Reich and A World at War have much more robust models of Russian and American economic expansion).

Anyway, in my game, I made a very strong British commitment to defending France. I vaguely recall that when I played the PC game shortly after it came out, it could not conquer a very strongly-defended France, but in this game, it did finally take out France in Winter 1940. British losses were light, and both Britain and Egypt were pretty well defended the turn after France fell. I wasn't really looking to take chances, as I was still re-learning the rules, and just wanted to see what the AI could do.

The computer player invaded Russia in Spring 1941, which is the normal turn. I had a reasonable Russian defense set up, and the Germans made progress slowly. The scenario victory conditions just depend on the number of objectives controlled, and I had the number required for a decisive victory and a fairly good position at the end of my Fall 41 turn. The Axis can't take an offensive in the first winter, so I figured I was in good shape.

Unfortunately, I forgot to keep an eye on the BRP levels. At the start of Winter 41, Allied BRP totals were slightly higher than the Axis, and I got a completely unexpected and unwanted Fall/Winter double turn, which inevitably led to a Winter/Spring return double move for the Axis. This made things much more iffy. Against a human opponent, giving up a double-turn then would have been "game over".

I survived the double-turn, but my defenses going into the final turn (Summer 42) were really falling apart. I still (barely) had a Decisive, but there were a lot of objectives (Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov and Smolensk practically on the front line, plus Moscow, Leningrad and Maikop requiring at least some defensive screen) at risk, and letting the Axis take and keep even one of them would have left me to settle with an extremely embarrassing Tactical victory instead.

The AI took Smolensk on their last turn, but Axis attacks ran into heavy losses along the whole front. Only a single panzer corps was left in Smolensk (8 defense) and I was able to scrape up 12 attack factors for a good (win 5/6) 1:1 counter-attack on my last turn, which retook the objective (and the Decisive).


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Ostwindflak
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Ostwindflak »

Neat little AAR belechannas. Gives some insight into the game a bit.
dhhgamer
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by dhhgamer »

I'm glad someone enjoys the AI. I only had a year to work on it - it was supposed to be the base, if I had more time I was going to add a learning algorithm. It does great for new players but it's always the same now so after a while it becomes really easy.

David Hiller
jtcourtne
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by jtcourtne »

David,

I played the heck out of 3r PC about 20 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. Once patched to version 1.38, the AI was quite decent IMO in that it would relentlessly pounce the moment I slipped into sloppy play or whenever I made a mistake. True, I did beat it more than it beat me, but I found that whenever I became complacent or over-confident, it would severly punish me as a consequence. For me, that's about all that you can hope for in any AI.

That game, at v. 1.38, still goes down as one of my favorite computer wargames. It allowed me to appreciate the brilliant mechanics baked into the boardgame without having to struggle with the rulebook. Truly a classic.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I felt the 3R AI was certainly adequate for its purpose, and that is all we can really ask. We can't expect it to beat us every time, but we can expect it to put up some resistance. Congrat's on contributing to the greatest game of all time, I still play it from time to time on an emulator, although Strategic Command 3 gets played more often for my strategic fix.

What games do you like to play? Do you still work in the gaming field?
WayneBGood
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by WayneBGood »

When I was in college and out too, 3R was the best to past those endless hours of bored poverty. A 6 pack a "lid" and a intact rule book was the key. Usually a full game was about 16-24 hours, which compared to PC games conquering the world was pretty short time investment. I still have my PC game 3R, but unfortunately it wasn't the same since you could never argue the rules with a computer.
brian brian
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by brian brian »

Bet y'all haven't gazed upon this image in a long long time:

Image

stumbled across this last night while wondering and googling 'what is Hasbro doing with Avalon Hill lately?' which led me to this piece, with some other old-timey cardboard wargame pictures. the map from "Tobruk" is a classic.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... e-New-Life
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rkr1958
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by rkr1958 »

While not AH 3rd Reich Related but definitely Avalon Hill related ...

Just finished (last night) David Rigby's book on "Wade McClusky and the Battle of Midway". The last (or maybe next to last) chapter contained several paragraphs on Wade McClusky consulting a bit for Avalon Hill for their Midway and possibly other games. Also, how he and his son Philip (a teenager at the time) used to play both Midway and Bismarck.

In Bismarck Philip would take the KM and usually win by hiding in the English Channel. This would always tick off his dad who said that the Bismarck never entered the English Channel and this wasn't proper play.

Also, when they played Midway, Philip always let his dad take the Americans. And unlike Nagumo, he split up the KB and would trounce his dad who followed the strategy he used during the actual battle to find the Japanese carriers but wasn't able to find them during the game because of Philip's innovations to Nagumo's strategy. Philip said that his usually clam father was also upset about this.

I can remember as a teenager myself growing up playing AH's Midway and remembering that it included a writeup from Wade McClusky about the battle.

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jhyden
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by jhyden »

ORIGINAL: dhhgamer

I'm glad someone enjoys the AI. I only had a year to work on it - it was supposed to be the base, if I had more time I was going to add a learning algorithm. It does great for new players but it's always the same now so after a while it becomes really easy.

David Hiller


I was on the 3R PC beta team!

I just recently received my copy of MWIF in the mail and have been using 3R as a reference point. Such a flood of great memories! What I've seen so far is very impressive and I'm looking forward to playing.


best wishes to all
James Hyden
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