Impressions thus far

3D version of Close Combat
ComradeP
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Impressions thus far

Post by ComradeP »

Aside from a demo or two from early CC games, the only CC game I've played is Cross of Iron. That is my point of reference for the series.

The Bloody First is thus far, regrettably, mostly a frustrating experience compared to the 2D CC game I've played.

Battles feel sterile, with units banging away at each-other and what feels like randomly scoring a few hits every few minutes.

Although I appreciate the more realistic approach to firefights compared to most wargames, with troops reluctantly exposing themselves, the behaviour of weapons like machineguns and mortars doesn't feel "right".

MG's fire in short bursts with a delay in between bursts, regardless of the range to the targets, and are often unable to hit a man-sized target at 100 meters. That just doesn't make much sense. I see the Germans moving closer with the peculiar slow-motion running animation the game uses, and nobody gets hit when fired at by 2 MG's and a BAR team.

I see the game's strangely distorted in size mortar shells land right on top of enemy infantry (literally on top of the soldier model) but the Germans suffer no casualties at all.

You would expect an MG to suppress enemy units in an open space in front of it.

The casualties and the limited effects of rifle fire of the average infantry engagement feel realistic, but the behaviour of support weapons doesn't.

There are a wide variety of technical issues. Models spinning around in circles, a poorly coded collision model allowing vehicles to move into buildings and units somehow taking casualties from rifle fire on the other side of a hill, units popping in and out of the terrain whilst moving around and more.

Whoever was in charge of quality control of the title really dropped the ball. 2 patches in the first week after release isn't a good sign. There are times when it feels like a tech demo that was prematurely pushed out the door to be in time for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I find it very difficult to believe that the developers felt the game is ready for release in its current technical state.

I wouldn't recommend purchasing the game unless you know what you're buying. Non-series fans could wait a year whilst the technical issues are resolved and probably get a good deal, but currently I don't think they'd appreciate it.

If you expect the game to be a competitor to Graviteam Tactics or Combat Mission: it isn't, but I don't think it wants to be.

Though reviews from websites like RPS highlighted the flaws of the game well, I bought it because I wanted to support CC's move to 3D.

To me, it's a first crude step into the world of 3D for CC. The first steps are not pretty, but the developers deserve the benefit of the doubt in my opinion.

If the second 3D title has the same technical issues, it would be a different story, but for now the game is good enough for me. It's immensely frustrating at times, but it's growing on me.
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justflank
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by justflank »

MG weapons have always been an area weapon and have never been known for great accuracy and for that reason have always been great for supporting infantry troops flanking/assaulting enemy positions. You can’t just hold down the trigger when firing these weapons due to overheating so firing in bursts is very realistic.

Mortars again are area weapons and when they land In and around troops they explode in an upwards cone so any troops laying down or dug in probably wouldn’t really sustain many injury, few death ears and some unlucky shrapnel.

I’ve been in conflicts for real and you can be exchanging fire with the enemy for a very long time before the situation has been assessed and a plan has been made, real battles are boring and most of the time you are sat around doing nothing. War is alot of waiting not very much assaulting.

A few tips:

Always try win fire supremacy over your enemy make sure you are not suppressed and once you have dominance and during that time you should be thinking about the best approach for your assaulting teams to flank and over run. Remember the enemy will have depth and most likely engage the assaulting squad soon after so using the same safe rout your mg section should be following up to lay down more hell

And finally no plan survives first contact and no assault on an enemy position will ever be text book, improvise, adapt and overcome!
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zakblood
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

welcome to the forum justflank
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by justflank »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

welcome to the forum justflank

I have been lurking for many years [;)]
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

lurkings fine, postings better[:D]
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by justflank »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

lurkings fine, postings better[:D]


I think I’m the only one enjoying the game from some of these posts, granted it has bugs for sure not game breaking.
Maybe I just encounter a bug and just flank it[8|][8|]
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zakblood
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

must admit i had some small issues, but nothing on the scale of others here on day one, either some are just wishing everything to be perfect off the bat, or hoping for more than the sum of the parts, one thing with either Matrix or Slitherine for that matter, or Ageod, patches always come, thick and fast and the games never what it was after a few of them, with some games needed more than others, which isn't a bad thing, as not only fixes get added, but something which others wish for, so in the end, it's gets better like wine with age, so glad your enjoying it, i am and i was one of those on the beta and wished more would join and then see how much it has already progressed, but yes still some ways to go for some and others, well nothing ever perfect, but with time and the developers this has got, it's always going to be a longer task, as they keep adding and altering stuff as they also wish and want more lol
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

my last beta for the series was Close Combat Gateway to Caen, and imo it's leaps and bound looking better than that, gameplay wise there's not much in it, as it's a series with a newer engine, so nothing really altered much other than some better looks, which i'd also guess now moddable will also change over the coming months, but as the game engine is more stable and imo much better, things in the series will now progress hopefully much better, i for one look forward to it, as progress is coming along, maybe not quick enough for some, but as Rome wasn't built in a day, i'm wanting the others now re done, or added so are playable in the newer engine, with time, anything maybe possible, who knows, i don't that's for sure so live in hope[;)]
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ComradeP
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by ComradeP »

Welcome to the forums justflank.
MG weapons have always been an area weapon and have never been known for great accuracy and for that reason have always been great for supporting infantry troops flanking/assaulting enemy positions. You can’t just hold down the trigger when firing these weapons due to overheating so firing in bursts is very realistic.

What I meant was that the bursts are not intensified as the distance decreases, or at least: that's what it feels like. Engagement ranges can be quite short in this game, and I would expect MG's to be more effective at ranges at around 100 meters.

I feel the suppressive effect is too limited at the moment, particularly for MMG's which offer a more stable firing position than squad automatic weapons/MG's.

I like the (significantly) lower casualty count due to rifle/MG fire being more realistic, the MG's just don't feel "right" to me at the moment.
Mortars again are area weapons and when they land In and around troops they explode in an upwards cone so any troops laying down or dug in probably wouldn’t really sustain many injury, few death ears and some unlucky shrapnel.

As long as they're prone, that's true. I've been firing at the same enemy unit with 3 mortar teams, with shells landing on top of soldier models, and the enemy not sustaining a casualty. That feels wrong. I don't expect 60mm mortar fire to be highly lethal to non-standing troops, but both the casualty rate and the suppressive effect feel too limit at the moment.

On the other hand, the flexibility in terms of targeting is a bit too much I'd argue. Units without the means to communicate with the mortar platoon shouldn't be able to act as spotters.
one thing with either Matrix or Slitherine for that matter, or Ageod, patches always come, thick and fast and the games never what it was after a few of them, with some games needed more than others, which isn't a bad thing, as not only fixes get added

Both of the Matrix/Slitherine games that I've bought recently, Fantasy General 2 and CC:TBF were patched soon after release. My issue with that is that these issues could've been fixed in the release candidate.
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by Tejszd »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Whoever was in charge of quality control of the title really dropped the ball. 2 patches in the first week after release isn't a good sign. There are times when it feels like a tech demo that was prematurely pushed out the door to be in time for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I find it very difficult to believe that the developers felt the game is ready for release in its current technical state.

Unfortunately pushing it out the door, even when not ready, seems to be a trend.

Though it is hard to say it was rushed when it was in development for so long so something is isn't working.
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by Tejszd »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

must admit i had some small issues, but nothing on the scale of others here on day one, either some are just wishing everything to be perfect off the bat, or hoping for more than the sum of the parts, one thing with either Matrix or Slitherine for that matter, or Ageod, patches always come, thick and fast and the games never what it was after a few of them, with some games needed more than others, which isn't a bad thing, as not only fixes get added, but something which others wish for, so in the end, it's gets better like wine with age, so glad your enjoying it, i am and i was one of those on the beta and wished more would join and then see how much it has already progressed, but yes still some ways to go for some and others, well nothing ever perfect, but with time and the developers this has got, it's always going to be a longer task, as they keep adding and altering stuff as they also wish and want more lol

You have faith still and hopefully it is well placed.

Past releases did get patches that fixed bugs and added some features, true. But they sometimes introduced new issues and could have gone farther. Leaving bugs unfixed and or wished for changes out.

TLD Outstanding Bugs; https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3387394
LSA Outstanding Bugs; https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3716292
GtC https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4700556
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zakblood
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

fair comment and reply tbh, i'm only a tester, so hopefully the developers will comment and add more
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by budd »

Got to pretty much agree with ComradeP's sentiments, thing is i'm still having fun with it despite all of the problems. I to purchased on release to support the move of CC to 3d, hope they get things straightened out.
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by Alan Sharif »

I too am enjoying the game, following the first patch, and whilst it is not perfect, I do not regret purchasing.
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by STIENER »

interesting comments..... waiting for more people to chime in
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by surfcandy »

Sorry, to be honest I hesitated and did not buy because of the negative reviews on Steam and gameplay I saw from the Youtube videos I searched. I'll let this one pass.
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by z1812 »

ORIGINAL: surfcandy

Sorry, to be honest I hesitated and did not buy because of the negative reviews on Steam and gameplay I saw from the Youtube videos I searched. I'll let this one pass.


Same here.
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zakblood
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by zakblood »

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 75#p809275

well it seems i'm not alone in liking and enjoying the game with a few comments above stating the same and a link to share, and it's the alterations for me and newer engine which is the point, yes it's not perfect, but hopefully in time like quite a few of the newer engine games, it will be better than the sum of its original parts
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by ComradeP »

It seems the Normandy (part of the) campaign is thus far seen as the most enjoyable, as several reviewers and the author of the thread you linked to, zakblood, are enjoying that (part of the) campaign the most.

I'll update this thread with screenshots, which might turn it into an AAR of sorts.
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ComradeP
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RE: Impressions thus far

Post by ComradeP »

The results of First Blood, the first battle.

There was no second round of the battle. I'm not sure why, as the Germans still controlled an objective (2-the bonus objective I captured due to Axis morale collapsing). They were not pushed off the map.

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