Not bad for a 20+ year old game

The sequel of the legendary wargame with a complete graphics and interface overhaul, major new gameplay and design features such as full naval combat modelling, improved supply handling, numerous increases to scenario parameters to better support large scenarios, and integrated PBEM++.
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Lobster
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Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

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76mm
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by 76mm »

I'd be surprised if more than a small fraction of TAOW players even use new-fangled things like Steam. [8D]
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I would be tarred, feathered and railed if I were seen in a steam app ! But I have to admit I am curious as to what the link is for, and I will also admit that if there were any value to steam, I would say so.
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76mm
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
But I have to admit I am curious as to what the link is for...

The link just shows steam usage stats for TOAW IV...go ahead, take a peek, we won't tell!
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Thanks Tom -

An ongoing analysis of Steam's concurrent players.

GG's War in the East on top [blue]
TOAW in the middle [green]
Advanced Tactics Gold on the bottom [gold]

I made quick picks based on what I thought would be a title better than TOAW and a title less than TOAW. Doesn't mean anything to me by just looking at it once, but it is some fun. I still won't admit that steam is useful for something because it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know by following the forums here [:)]

- and great, now i have used steam for something and I will burn in hell!

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thomasharvey
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by thomasharvey »

I am no expert on Steam but it is my understanding it works best for players who have multiple games that all receive patches in the form of downloads. The Steam system will patch all the separate games automatically no matter how many there are and it is done at times selected by the player, usually in the middle of the night. The player spends no time at all on the updates.

The games are all concentrated and organized in one place. It is also convenient to purchase and load a game on the Steam platform. Just point and click.

I have one TOAW IV game on Steam on one computer and another version not on steam on a different computer. Steam allows TOAW IV to be played off line but it limits you to having just one game open at a time. On my non steam computer I can have multiple TOAW IV games and editor screens open at the same time.

There are other features to steam including the workshop area but I have not explored that yet.
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76mm
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
An ongoing analysis of Steam's concurrent players.

GG's War in the East on top [blue]
TOAW in the middle [green]
Advanced Tactics Gold on the bottom [gold]
Actually I'm quite surprised that there are that many WitE players on Steam these days. I haven't played WitE in several years now...
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

I have a multitude of TOAW installs. One for editing scenarios (4.1.0.3) because it isn't broken. One for playing pbem (4.1.0.21) which is the Steam install. One for testing which is the non Steam install. TOAWIII because it does some things better and I like some of the old ways. Sometimes all of them are going.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by larryfulkerson »

One for editing scenarios (4.1.0.3) because it isn't broken.
Thanks for the tip. I'll go to the beta FTP site and grab a copy and use
it for my icon color changes.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Won't work.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by larryfulkerson »

I have a multitude of TOAW installs. One for editing scenarios (4.1.0.3) because it isn't broken.
I'd like to report here that 4.1.0.3 in fact, did CTD when I tried to change an icon color.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by LeeChard »

I use steam for some games. The ones that your required to have. For Matrix and others I would
get the games directly from the source.
There are some advantages to steam for instance auto updating as mentioned before but some serious
downsides like occasionally if I have a problem with steam it effects every game you have on the
platform.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I have a multitude of TOAW installs. One for editing scenarios (4.1.0.3) because it isn't broken.
I'd like to report here that 4.1.0.3 in fact, did CTD when I tried to change an icon color.

I NEVER use the new Unit Report to change ANYTHING. It's not only broken anyplace in the known universe, it's also broken in every other universe. [:D]

However, other useful bits are not broken. For instance in 'fixing' the Open Unit and Save Unit bits someone made it so any saved units previous to the 'fix' could no longer be used. LMFAO. I was not surprised.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by RealChuckB »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I would be tarred, feathered and railed if I were seen in a steam app ! But I have to admit I am curious as to what the link is for, and I will also admit that if there were any value to steam, I would say so.

I never understood this attitude towards Steam. While I certainly don't think that Steam is the greatest thing ever, it has many advantages over the old way of distributing games (especially if you own multiple computers) and I seriously don't know why it invokes such negative emotions in some people, especially in ones that never used it. Especially with Matrix Games, I think you get the best of both worlds (I will always buy from MG directly to give them the largest cut but then use the Steam key you get to install and play the game through Steam).

Really curious ...
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Blond_Knight »

I think its about our eroding rights as consumers. When I buy from Matrix/Slitherine, its mine until the OS wont run it anymore or I get tired of it.
When I buy from Steam Im buying a "license" to run the game, I dont own the game.

Then there's the concern of what if Steam went under. Now thats not a realistic concern but ten years ago it was a valid question. So if Steam goes away Im out all the games I bought from them. With Matrix/Slitherine since I store all my games, patches, and mods on multiple hard drives; if MG goes under Im sad but what Ive previously bought isnt impacted.

Personally I tend to buy the lower priced games I dont care about on Steam and buy my wargames here and johntillersoftware.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by danlongman »

I initially was quite leery of Steam because of the license vs ownership issue
and the idea that I do not know how much money goes to those who produce the game.
I relented because of the convenience and ease of operation. I buy most of my favorites
direct from Matrix/Slitherine but many others I got on Steam. For the record I own almost
all the Matrix/Slitherine catalogue and am a player and collector.

As a final note the customer service I have received from Matrix/Slitherine is second
to none across the industry. I have NEVER gotten any satisfactory customer service
from Steam. It is just the way they are.
"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: danlongman

I initially was quite leery of Steam because of the license vs ownership issue
and the idea that I do not know how much money goes to those who produce the game.
I relented because of the convenience and ease of operation. I buy most of my favorites
direct from Matrix/Slitherine but many others I got on Steam. For the record I own almost
all the Matrix/Slitherine catalogue and am a player and collector.

As a final note the customer service I have received from Matrix/Slitherine is second
to none across the industry. I have NEVER gotten any satisfactory customer service
from Steam. It is just the way they are.

My experience is just the opposite. I 'returned' a game that was far past the refund date and they gave me a refund because I had a valid reason. They didn't have to. I've never had a problem getting Steam issues resolved. Where problems arise is with the publishers.

I also buy from Matrix and then get a Steam key.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

When I buy from Steam Im buying a "license" to run the game, I dont own the game.

Okay, you're joking right? Hard to find any game software that isn't open source or public domain that is NOT licensed these days.

From your TOAWIV directory. The end users (you) agreement:

READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE PROCEEDING TO INSTALL THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT AND OR UTILISING ANY OF OUR SERVICES. BY PRESSING "AGREE," YOU ("LICENSEE") AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THIS LICENSE AND THE TERMS HEREIN. YOU THERFORE ACCEPT AND AGREE TO THE CONTENTS OF THIS LICENSE IN ITS ENTIRETY.

From GG War in the East:

SINGLE USE SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE
PROCEEDING TO INSTALL THE SOFTWARE. BY INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE YOU
HAVE AGREED TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. THIS LICENSE
AGREEMENT IS A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN YOU AND SLITHERINE
LTD. AND/OR ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES OR SUB LICENSEES.
1. General. This software product is copyrighted and is protected by international law. The
software and any accompanying documentation or media including this License whether on
disk, in read only memory, or in any other form are licensed, not sold, to you by either
Slitherine Ltd or Matrix Games Ltd
and is for use only under the terms of this License.
Slitherine and or Matrix Games reserves all rights not expressly granted to you. The rights
granted herein are limited and do not include any patents or intellectual property rights.
Slitherine and or Matrix Games expressly retain ownership of the Software itself.

Advanced Tactics Gold:

Software product license
This software product is copyrighted (by national law and international contracts.) This software product has
not been sold to you, but is only licensed to you.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I never understood this attitude towards Steam ... I seriously don't know why it invokes such negative emotions ...
Really curious ...
Then you haven't seen any of my other posts explaining how steam negatively affects some of us. The most recent was at this linked thread. It's not about 'negative emotions', it's about providing a public service by letting people make a better informed decision when purchasing a game.

tm.asp?m=4657996
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Blond_Knight »

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

When I buy from Steam Im buying a "license" to run the game, I dont own the game.

Okay, you're joking right? Hard to find any game software that isn't open source or public domain that is NOT licensed these days.

Software product license
This software product is copyrighted (by national law and international contracts.) This software product has
not been sold to you, but is only licensed to you.


Technically your quite right. But the likelihood of Steam or some product with an online license scheme would be in a much better position to enforce that than MG would.
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