Intermittent EMCON

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DMAN
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Intermittent EMCON

Post by DMAN »

Hi all,

Is there a [non-LUA] way to set intermittent EMCON for AI units?

This would be especially suited to submarines: they could come to periscope depth, do a quick radar scan for OTH targets, then go back under.
This would facilitate sea control and ASuW missions, and give an extra dimension to the sim.

What do you think?

Cheers!
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SeaQueen
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by SeaQueen »

Not currently. Interestingly, this is one of the features that Harpoon had and was left by the wayside. I have done it with LUA, though. In the LUA Legion area I have my "blinking SAMs" script.
KnightHawk75
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by KnightHawk75 »

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

Not currently. Interestingly, this is one of the features that Harpoon had and was left by the wayside. I have done it with LUA, though. In the LUA Legion area I have my "blinking SAMs" script.
A helpful script it is indeed, one of the very first I grabbed when getting started.
DMAN
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by DMAN »

ORIGINAL: KnightHawk75

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

Not currently. Interestingly, this is one of the features that Harpoon had and was left by the wayside. I have done it with LUA, though. In the LUA Legion area I have my "blinking SAMs" script.
A helpful script it is indeed, one of the very first I grabbed when getting started.

Is it anything like what you posted for the submarine issue on that another thread? [:)]

Do you think implementing intermittent EMCON would be difficult to introduce in a future update?

[CHAFF QUESTION MOVED TO A NEW THREAD]
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SeaQueen
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by SeaQueen »

ORIGINAL: DMAN
Is it anything like what you posted for the submarine issue on that another thread? [:)]

Not sure. I can't remember. What did I post?

I really can't comment on how difficult it would be to implement. I know that D tries desperately to avoid adding more buttons to the UI because Command is already "death by options." I suppose that's sort of the point, to enable the player to be more "hands off" by defining AI behaviors and not needing to intervene. At some point it becomes overwhelming, though.
DMAN
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by DMAN »

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

ORIGINAL: DMAN
Is it anything like what you posted for the submarine issue on that another thread? [:)]

Not sure. I can't remember. What did I post?

I really can't comment on how difficult it would be to implement. I know that D tries desperately to avoid adding more buttons to the UI because Command is already "death by options." I suppose that's sort of the point, to enable the player to be more "hands off" by defining AI behaviors and not needing to intervene. At some point it becomes overwhelming, though.

My apologies, I was replying to Knighthawk75. He posted some quite-involved code on another thread of mine, and I simply cannot get across it. But it's ok.

I understand the rabbit hole of "just one more", however, I feel the EMCON model is a little too simplified, as in, "on" or "off".
I further understand that the algorithms and coding behind it must be significant, yet I believe an intermittent setting would further enhance the simulator greatly.
KnightHawk75
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by KnightHawk75 »

It would be a useful add, but then so would 100 other things.
As for effort and complications\side effects of doing so I'll leave that to the devs. I do get the sense that since they've provided mechanics to accomplish something like it via LUA, then chances are probably on the lower side they would put what I assume are limited resources into making it part of the base ai.

As for the blink script, it's arguably less involved than that snippet i posted for you DMAN, but at the same time easy\easier to just plop in and just use with little modification other than telling it which units you want including in the blinking. Link to SeaQueen's instructions and script:
tm.asp?m=4503698


BTW That stuff I posted related to your other question\issue was just one-off stuff, if you ever want to know, like line by line, what something is doing so you can learn, just ask, and I can explain, or at least try to. Most things are not as complicated as they first appear once you get the hang of some basics, Wicker has done some videos posted in lua legion area, that could help with that. More people using LUA (when called for) equals better and more involved public scenarios, and that is a benefit to all players, so I'm all for helping foster that where I can. Don't fear the LUA. ;)
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SeaQueen
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by SeaQueen »

As for the blink script, it's arguably less involved than that snippet i posted for you DMAN, but at the same time easy\easier to just plop in and just use with little modification other than telling it which units you want including in the blinking.

Yay! I'm portable!!!!!!!
DMAN
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by DMAN »

ORIGINAL: KnightHawk75

It would be a useful add, but then so would 100 other things.
As for effort and complications\side effects of doing so I'll leave that to the devs. I do get the sense that since they've provided mechanics to accomplish something like it via LUA, then chances are probably on the lower side they would put what I assume are limited resources into making it part of the base ai.

Noted, however, intermittent EMCON is critical in real-world operations, and leaving LUA to accomplish "something like it", I believe, significantly detracts from the sim.
It's also quite surprising that it wasn't implemented during development, and if it was and subsequently rejected, one must wonder why, as the original release pre-dates the introduction of LUA.

ORIGINAL: KnightHawk75

As for the blink script, it's arguably less involved than that snippet i posted for you DMAN, but at the same time easy\easier to just plop in and just use with little modification other than telling it which units you want including in the blinking. Link to SeaQueen's instructions and script:
tm.asp?m=4503698


BTW That stuff I posted related to your other question\issue was just one-off stuff, if you ever want to know, like line by line, what something is doing so you can learn, just ask, and I can explain, or at least try to. Most things are not as complicated as they first appear once you get the hang of some basics, Wicker has done some videos posted in lua legion area, that could help with that. More people using LUA (when called for) equals better and more involved public scenarios, and that is a benefit to all players, so I'm all for helping foster that where I can. Don't fear the LUA. ;)

Your kind, unsolicited offer of assistance is very much appreciated. :)
I have the seen the script, and may attempt it.
However, my position is that fundamental real-world functionalities should be included in the sim. [:)]

StellarRat
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by StellarRat »

"One ping and one ping only" [:D]

I agree, this should be an option for all active sensors.
DMAN
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by DMAN »

ORIGINAL: StellarRat

"One ping and one ping only" [:D]

I agree, this should be an option for all active sensors.

"Let them sing, Vasily..." [:)]

It's somewhat surprising it's not already.
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kevinkins
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by kevinkins »

Quick question, who in real life would determine when air defence radars are active? I will try to answer my own question. Some sort of "commander" would select from:

- fixed interval; fixed length
- variable interval; fixed length
- fixed interval; variable lengths
- variable interval;variable lengths
- the above based on some AI/algorithm
or
- activate radar based on a separate "spotter" (e.g. AEW A/C) with data link.

I sort of lean toward the last two. There are lua functions related to detection. Not sure if doable, but maybe.
If AEW a/c detects F35 then
S-400 active
end
If AEW a/c NOT detects F35 then
S-400 inactive
end

Can lua script run in the background to continuously test if various conditions are met (via Scenario Load/)? Have never tried that.

Kevin


“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan

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SeaQueen
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by SeaQueen »

ORIGINAL: kevinkins
Quick question, who in real life would determine when air defence radars are active? I will try to answer my own question. Some sort of "commander" would select from:

It depends. Typically these kinds of things are a reflection of many different variables. Different militaries use different tactics. With a country reliant largely on fixed SAM sites and GCI systems, it might be set at a quite high level (sector and above). With a country with large number of mobile SAMs it might be set at a lower level, or it might not, depending on the country's doctrine and culture. A very hierarchical leadership structure might still have it set at a very high level, with low level leadership only allowed to make very specific decisions. Usually, when you hear people quote EMCON rules, it'll be phrased in terms of "XX of the last YY minutes." It might also be a reflection of movement. With some types of mobile SAMs, whether they're emitting or not is as indicative of how often they move as it is of EMCON doctrine especially if there's an associated set up time for that system.
Can lua script run in the background to continuously test if various conditions are met (via Scenario Load/)? Have never tried that.

Sort of. You can use an regular interval trigger and a condition to test conditions periodically. Luckily LUA runs fairly quickly, so performing these kinds of tests frequently doesn't seem to bog the system down. My SAM blinking script uses tests like that.
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kevinkins
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RE: Intermittent EMCON

Post by kevinkins »

Ah ... simply forgot about the regular interval trigger. That will work fine when needed. Thanks SeaQueen.
“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan

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