Finding Nemo, and a Discussion on China Strategy

[dave sindel]

I was pleasantly surprised when I logged onto the forum and saw some posts by Nemo121. While some of what he writes goes right over my head, I will admit that some has been very helpful in my appreciation of this fine game. I hope that he will chime in on this thread.

My 2nd PBEM isnt going so well. It is August 1942, and I have now lost all 6 of the USN fleet carriers. My last USN CV - Wasp - suffered sub attacks two turns in a row. The first attack left her with 87 flotation damage and a speed of 3. She took 3 more torpedoes during my current turn from a different sub, and promptly sank. I wont have a USN fleet carrier until Essex arrives in about 9 months... [8|]

My opponent appears to thrive on the naval war, and has expressed a strong distaste for the land war. Unfortunately, the land war is now all I have left, so I am seeking guidance.

My opponent has not launched any sort of major offensive in China. He appears content to stand pat in his present locations. He has expressed the belief that China is a "waste of time" for the Japanese. So my question for JFB's is this - do you agree with that approach / assessment?

My question of the Forum in general is - what would you do as the Allies ?

Maps below:

[dave sindel]

Map of Burma - no major offensive in this theater either.

[dave sindel]

CV losses

[Anachro]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel
My opponent appears to thrive on the naval war, and has expressed a strong distaste for the land war. Unfortunately, the land war is now all I have left, so I am seeking guidance.

My opponent has not launched any sort of major offensive in China. He appears content to stand pat in his present locations. He has expressed the belief that China is a "waste of time" for the Japanese. So my question for JFB's is this - do you agree with that approach / assessment?

I'll be happy to add more later as this is very interesting, but I'm a bit busy right now so I'll only say this: I say hit your opponent exactly where he doesn't want it. He has expressed distaste for China and "land war." He "thrives on naval war." So go after him by land using your land and air power. While your carriers are gone, your air power is still immense and LBA can be used effectively.

Going after him by land, then, is the perfect thing to do. Him not pushing into China is a mistake and it will bite him in the end and you can cause serious difficulties later on, especially in '43 and '44. If he hasn't pushed into India, you can plan and begin a land offensive into Burma and through that China. Doing so is a necessity since loss of your carriers inhibits other things, but it is perhaps an aspect of the game where he is at his weakest in ability. If you feel comfortable with that, then do it!

I would lastly like to say that I am a bit envious of you [:D] as this seems like a fun scenario to play with and learn how to be effective as the Allies without carriers. I think it's certainly possible to win the war without any carriers at all!

[btd64]

Dave, I have some experence without CV's. But first, which scenario is this. And Second, hit him where he is not expecting it. As Anachro said, in China. You must have many Group armies that have grown in strength. Use them....GP

[jdsrae]

i won’t have time for play by email for many years, but I’m using that time to prepare!
Agree with the Burma China strategy above, but you’ll need to apply pressure elsewhere too to keep him guessing a bit.
Against an aggressive human opponent you probably need to garrison SE PAC (which had Balboa as the HQ historically) and develop Bora Bora / maybe Tahiti in support and use your growing land based air assets. Tahiti may be too far for his carriers to reach without burning too much fuel.
Sounds like a good challenge, I look forward to the greater challenge of a human opponent one day, it’d be a completely different game every time.

[AcePylut]

Move about 500-600 AV into Canton. It will stop some of his industry there, and since it's heavy urban, it'll be really difficult to kick your troops out of the hex.

[erstad]

Why are your bases in India red for supply? Either you haven't been bringing enough supply in, or you have some bases set to hoard it all. Either way, that should be addressed. India shouldn't be in the red for supply.

You look pretty low in China too, but that could be more normal. That could limit your ambitions...

[adarbrauner]

I'd say that the war in China is not a waste of time from japanese side, but rather an unpleasant necessity that you can't shake off your shoulders from;

[BBfanboy]

Much depends on whether you have agreed that Auto-Victory will decide the game or not. If A-V is in play, the Japanese player can harvest a lot of points for destroying Chinese units - pin them with tanks, then surround them and wipe them out. One point per six squads IIRC, but other devices like guns count too.

And in the negative side, he needs to prevent your Chinese Corps from filling out, getting training/experience and improving morale or by 1943 he will have difficulty hanging on the large VP bases in China which Japan needs to keep the Allies from getting to A-V.

[RogerJNeilson]

Ok I am mid February 1945 and I am moving my Carriers into action for the first time since I lost one in the Indian Ocean years ago. Carriers are necessary in the big water areas but are a liability in narrow areas. China is great fun for the Allies.

Roger

[GetAssista]

Wow, OP, you got lucky with your opponent leaving China be. Bring some long range bombers and supply to Changsha and teach him a lesson. Well, maybe not [:D] because you don't really want him to change his mind just yet.
Meanwhile
- organize the Hump airbridge and watch your malnourished Chinese become fatter
- open up Myitkyina campaign. I suppose you were able to evac some Chinese to India? Do it for some more, they love Indian food
- dig in your corps in some strategic (3x terrain cutting the road or protecting the city) offbase hexes. I see all your LCUs are inside your bases, this is not the approach you should use in China. After half a year digging indestructible forts 5 can be a real bummer for Japan

[RogerJNeilson]

and have patience, at a certain time you can start to swarm him in China whilst at the same time seeking attack lines through IndoChina and the Celebes. Once you have footholds then you can out-engineer him and overwhelming LBA will wear him down.

Roger

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: btd64

Dave, I have some experence without CV's. But first, which scenario is this. And Second, hit him where he is not expecting it. As Anachro said, in China. You must have many Group armies that have grown in strength. Use them....GP

GP - this is stock scenario 1

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

i won’t have time for play by email for many years, but I’m using that time to prepare!
Agree with the Burma China strategy above, but you’ll need to apply pressure elsewhere too to keep him guessing a bit.
Against an aggressive human opponent you probably need to garrison SE PAC (which had Balboa as the HQ historically) and develop Bora Bora / maybe Tahiti in support and use your growing land based air assets. Tahiti may be too far for his carriers to reach without burning too much fuel.
Sounds like a good challenge, I look forward to the greater challenge of a human opponent one day, it’d be a completely different game every time.

The majority of the action has been focused on an arc from the Marshalls to Noumea. I have Wotje, Maleolap, Ailinglaplap, Nauru, Ocean. All of the Gilberts are Allied bases. For a while, I held Lunga - beat him to the punch so to speak. It took a major effort for him to re-take it.

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Move about 500-600 AV into Canton. It will stop some of his industry there, and since it's heavy urban, it'll be really difficult to kick your troops out of the hex.

on the way... [:D]

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: erstad

Why are your bases in India red for supply? Either you haven't been bringing enough supply in, or you have some bases set to hoard it all. Either way, that should be addressed. India shouldn't be in the red for supply.

You look pretty low in China too, but that could be more normal. That could limit your ambitions...

an excellent question that has me perplexed... I've been bringing supply into Calcutta & Chittagong on a regular basis from Cape Town and Aden. I'm definitely open to some advice in fixing this issue

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Much depends on whether you have agreed that Auto-Victory will decide the game or not. If A-V is in play, the Japanese player can harvest a lot of points for destroying Chinese units - pin them with tanks, then surround them and wipe them out. One point per six squads IIRC, but other devices like guns count too.

And in the negative side, he needs to prevent your Chinese Corps from filling out, getting training/experience and improving morale or by 1943 he will have difficulty hanging on the large VP bases in China which Japan needs to keep the Allies from getting to A-V.

actually we've never had a discussion about A-V. I suppose we should.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Much depends on whether you have agreed that Auto-Victory will decide the game or not. If A-V is in play, the Japanese player can harvest a lot of points for destroying Chinese units - pin them with tanks, then surround them and wipe them out. One point per six squads IIRC, but other devices like guns count too.

And in the negative side, he needs to prevent your Chinese Corps from filling out, getting training/experience and improving morale or by 1943 he will have difficulty hanging on the large VP bases in China which Japan needs to keep the Allies from getting to A-V.

actually we've never had a discussion about A-V. I suppose we should.

Look at the game date: you are in the midst of the monsoon for those bases, which imposes a daily cap on supply which can arrive via ground. Look into the monsoon issue. It really does matter.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Move about 500-600 AV into Canton. It will stop some of his industry there, and since it's heavy urban, it'll be really difficult to kick your troops out of the hex.

This. Canton and HK will boost your supply production capabilities in China. However, both bases can be bombed from the sea, so the captured industry can be wrecked by Jap SC TFs. Can the Chinese achieve a local air superiority over Canton and HK? Seems tricky.