New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

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Excroat3
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New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Here is my take on an unofficial continuation of the Red Phoenix Universe, where the Allied Coalition and the USSR come to blows shortly after the ending of the Second Korean War. It's a bit of a sandbox scenario, but there is some challenge to it.

Scenario Description:
The 2nd Korean War is over. A Chinese airborne division sits in the no-mans-land between the 2 sides, making sure that the peace is kept. North Korea is finished. Not even the late intervention of the Soviet Union could have prevented it's demise. However, that same Soviet intervention has sent shockwaves around the world. NATO and the USSR are closer to WW3 than they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In the North Pacific, a massive Soviet SAG prepares to cross through the Tsushima Strait. The only problem is that the survivors of the South Korean navy, as well as the American Constellation and Nimitz battlegroups, stand in their way. Will the Soviets begin WW3 in the North Pacific, or will they back down to fight another day?


Hope you guys enjoy! Feedback appreciated!



EDIT: Final version posted!
Attachments
Red Phoeni..ma, 1987.zip
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Gunner98
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Gunner98 »

Gave this one a quick run through, got a few hours in and my air losses were appalling! A couple thoughts.


-The formations, both sides, are quite spread out. Makes the Soviet easier to attack.

-The scoring is a bit off, was over 1000 points and Triumph with only a few of the escorts in the KUG sunk. BCGN was still OK.

-That's the first time I've seen chaff used - cool, but I'm not sure what its doing. Seems misplaced, perhaps laterally between the group of airbases and the US radars... not sure.


Quite a scramble at times. Thanks


B
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Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Thanks for the feedback!

-I'll tighten up the Soviet formation, thanks
-Will adjust scoring
-The Chaff comes with the Badger jammer loadout, and the Badger automatically deploys it while on its jamming mission. I'll mess with it a bit, but I'm not sure what I can do. Maybe I'll just switch out Badger variants
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Gunner98
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Gunner98 »

I think the chaff is great, not overly effective but neat to see. I think if they were at least trying to hid something it might look better, such as swinging the patrol route to be perpendicular to the approach of the air armada heading the players way. An attempt, at least, to hide it.

B
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Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Quick hotfix with a few changes based on Gunner98's comments:

-Adjusted scoring, although it might still be a bit too low
-Soviet formation adjusted, should now be much harder to pick off outlying ships
-Added new missions for the chaff badgers, now they attempt to create a wall of chaff between the Soviet airbases and Allied sensors

If you are already playing through the scenario, you don't need this new version, but if you are just getting started, give this one a try instead!
Ancalagon451
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Ancalagon451 »

Added new missions for the chaff badgers, now they attempt to create a wall of chaff between the Soviet airbases and Allied sensors

I'm not totally sure, so check it with a more reputable source than me, but I seem to remember back when chaff laying was implemented; the devs said that it did not act as an opaque "radar wall" instead only hiding planes WITHIN the corridor itself, witch makes it fairly cumbersome to use (specially with IA controled planes).

Also EW radars are incrementally better as time passes at discriminating targets within the coridor to the point of uselessness when electronically scanned radars are used for detection.

So while it is not incorrect for the soviets to be laying chaff in the late eighties (they kept a lot of outdated equipment in inventory) and it gives a lot of flavor, is probably fairly ineffective at this point.

Ancalagon


EDIT: Also, what is "The Red Phoenix" universe? Never heard of it.
Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Noted with the chaff tactics, I'll just leave the badgers in there for their jamming abilities in that case.

For the "Red Phoenix Universe", this scenario takes place after the events of the book Red Phoenix hence occurring in the same "universe" as that book. Another one of my scenarios (Red Phoenix - Christmas Day) takes place during the events of the book.
Ancalagon451
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Ancalagon451 »

Well, a day when I find a book about a warming cold war I didn't know about, which is not the typical "red tanks rolling over europe" scenario, and it's from a fairly reputable author to both; it's a very good day in my book.

Thank you dear sir (Now let's hope that the good guys are not as stronk as in "The sixth battle", that one was a real letdown).

Also I've dug out the official post about chaff laying here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4357448

It's basically what I said above but with more detail. TL;DR: Chaff laying in 1987 it's totally useless (unless enemy radars are serioully outdated).

Ancalagon



Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

If you read Red Phoenix and like it, the sequel, set in ~2017, recently came out

As for the chaff, at least it looks cool [:D]
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by HalfLifeExpert »

Very cool, I've been waiting for someone to tackle this scenario from Red Phoenix ever since i re-read it last year.

I hope to be able to properly play it relatively soon so that I can report back.
Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Has anyone had a chance to start playing through this one?
ryszardsh
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by ryszardsh »

Played it all the way through to nothing left for Russia, save maybe some subs I did not find. Comments about spread on formations is dead on, made it much easier to kill ships. I pulled the carrier group directly back into the strait to give me some time to see what Opfor did. Then I swatted the daylights out of the fighter sweeps till they slowed a lot. Almost lost some of the JSDF ships to a launch from an Oscar (I think) but had set up a heavy cap well in front of them and got almost everything. After the sweeps slowed down I went AWACS hunting and killed several. :) Then I started picking off ships and when the Kirov brought up its radars I pounded it with HARMs. Real easy after the Kirov died.

Suggestions: Shrink group sizes. Reset the chaff planes, they are too far back to do the Russians any good. Stage the Russian fights differently, maybe different patrol zones? They swarm any flight so put up some bait, they swarm, and my follow on flights kill at long range. Oh, and a sub or 2, coming in through the strait was expected but never showed. Would have been a nasty surprise.

RAS
Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

I'll start working on some changes, thanks. Quick question, were you playing on the original version or the one with the updated formations?
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by BeirutDude »

I'll give her a run next few nights. I owe some playtesting in return for the help I've gotten and need to take a break from the scenario I'm working on...
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by BeirutDude »

Deleted, answered my own question [:D]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by BeirutDude »

So I don't think I can add to much to the comments above. Certainly big and bloody. You and I fall in different camps with respect to defining mission in advance so in general I'm not going to try to sell you on it wholesale but in playtesting I did define my Air ASW Missions and launched them first (then AEW followed by CAP). Before ANY of my Orion's, Neptunes or Trackers could get out to station "Vampires," I assume, from the Subs were kicking my DD SAG's butt and I lost two destroyers within an hour to hour and a half of the beginning. Given the world situation you depict and those landbased ASW aircraft's 24/7 capabilities I would assume they would be up and screening a two Carrier CVBG and JMSDF SAG (not to mention the CVBG S3 Vikings would be flying as well). I would encourage you to put some of the land based ASW aircraft into an ASW mission so they are hunting from the beginning.

So my thoughts...
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
AlexGGGG
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by AlexGGGG »

Nice, big, and bloody... and holy flying Backfires, Batman! I killed like 60 of them and I'm pretty sure some escaped. Also the first mission where I see jammers laying down chaff?
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by AlexGGGG »

I suppose it is possible to make some variation of this scenario by adding SAMs and ground targets (like bunkers, HQs, power stations, whatever), and adding ground targets. That would be even more fun I suppose.

But, as it is, it is good fun already, and as it is I don't really see any kind of bugs or anomalies in it. I could use MOAR HARMs, MUCH MOAR HARMs, but that's optional.
ryszardsh
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by ryszardsh »

Played through the revised scenario a couple times now. Good scenario generally, minor issues.

If USA/SK/Japan kill off the Bear recon flight then Opfor never really seems to find the coalition vessels. Do that, pull everything back to the strait and kill the Russian ships when they get so far out that they do not benefit from a CAP.

HARMs are always your friend when trying to kill a Kirov, esp when every ship lights off radars when a couple harpoons get fired. May work better with a tattletale or 3, AGI in the strait, commercial vessel on the red side that is not obvious or something. As always, targeting is tough if prowlers are used wisely.

RAS
Excroat3
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RE: New Scenario for Testing: Red Phoenix - Battle of the Tsushima, 1987

Post by Excroat3 »

Thanks for all the feedback! I thought that the subs would be another reliable factor to detect the US ships, but I guess not. The AGIs would be a good idea but they would make quick targets, as WWIII has already kicked off. And I don't think you can convince a cargo ship to stick around in the middle of what's going to be the biggest naval battle of the theater! [:D] In all seriousness, I will shortly be releasing the final version which includes a couple of surprises, as well as some extra notes in the briefing to address some of the comments made here. Thanks again for the help on this one!
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