Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

The Campaign Series: Middle East 1948-1985 is a new turn-based, tactical wargame that focuses on conflicts in the Middle East.

Moderator: Jason Petho

User avatar
Jason Petho
Posts: 15316
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Terrace, BC, Canada
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Jason Petho »

Campaign Series Vietnam: ALPHA graphics

A Shau Special Forces Camp area



Image
Attachments
A_Shau_Map.jpg
A_Shau_Map.jpg (549.62 KiB) Viewed 64 times
Hoplite1963
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:53 am

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Hoplite1963 »

Looking very nice.
User avatar
Jason Petho
Posts: 15316
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Terrace, BC, Canada
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Jason Petho »

You'll notice some graphics glitches, but please remember these are ALPHA graphics and still very much in progress.
User avatar
carll11
Posts: 861
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:07 pm

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by carll11 »

I have been playing the new cs for a few weeks now, my admiration of the design/mod/code team is off the chart,the tank trench bridging, boffo, and when I see the Vietnam set up here, its simply stupendous, I am very eager.


The issues I do have are a matter of taste perhaps; a) I just cannot get the new toolbar, its so alien to me ( not very intuitive imho) I am constantly getting frustrated trying to navigate it...from my perspective I keep asking why the complete redesign was necessary what was intended as the benefit?



b) the white outline on the graphics symbols, it creates a ....'busy-ness' or halo affect, I like the symbols and would use them minus this, as I have to play nato only at this point ....I dont remember the 'black' graphical symbols having an outline or highlight...
Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4809
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: carll11

I have been playing the new cs for a few weeks now, my admiration of the design/mod/code team is off the chart,the tank trench bridging, boffo, and when I see the Vietnam set up here, its simply stupendous, I am very eager.


The issues I do have are a matter of taste perhaps; a) I just cannot get the new toolbar, its so alien to me ( not very intuitive imho) I am constantly getting frustrated trying to navigate it...from my perspective I keep asking why the complete redesign was necessary what was intended as the benefit?



b) the white outline on the graphics symbols, it creates a ....'busy-ness' or halo affect, I like the symbols and would use them minus this, as I have to play nato only at this point ....I dont remember the 'black' graphical symbols having an outline or highlight...
Carl

a) Wit all new things, one gets to like them at the end. I e.g. found the old toolbar too small and too tedious. The new one IMHO makes more sense then the old; e.g. it's better organised and one can chose various display options. Again. a matter of taste I presume.

b) Can you provide a screenshot of the 'halo' effect you've mentioned? You do know, that you can change the 'highlight' colours as well, right? I prefer them in yellow, not the standard magenta though for easier recognition.

Klink, Oberst
[left]My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
User avatar
Jason Petho
Posts: 15316
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Terrace, BC, Canada
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Jason Petho »

The Last Camp - Battle of A Shau (1966)
10 March, 1966
[A Shau Camp, A Shau Valley, Thura Thien Province, Vietnam]: [Side A][HIS][CSL]: The CDIG A Shau Camp was the last remaining presence of South Veitnamese forces in the A Shau Valley, all the other had been either overrun by the Viet Cong or abandoned. Engagements with Viet Cong and North Vietnamese regulars were frequent as patrols from the camp were out searching targets along the infiltration route from Laos. The camp was out of artillery range and needed to be resupplied by air, leaving the camp at the mercy of the notoriously bad weather in the A Shau Valley. On March 9th, elements of the 95B NVA Infantry Regiment started their main assault against the defenders. A Special Forces A-Team, 180 CDIG personnel and recently added MIKE Company was all that stood before the assaulting NVA. Varying attacks happened through the day and night, the final assault coming on March 10th, leaving the decision to continue the fight or abandon the camp. [ALL][CSEE and Variable Objectives][1.00]



Image
Attachments
A_Shau.jpg
A_Shau.jpg (442.36 KiB) Viewed 64 times
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »


Another recent (private) Dev Forum post.
ORIGINAL: berto
ORIGINAL: berto

The player must think outside the box. This is not your father's Campaign Series, with its simpler and more straightforward victory conditions. Yes, right.
This bears emphasizing, somewhere prominently in the game docs and What's New. Otherwise, expect lots of complaints from players about scenario imbalance etc.

In the older, legacy Campaign Series, the things that mattered were only two:

[*]Loss Points, typically positive only
[*]Objectives, with unchanging, end-of-scenario-awarded VPs

In Campaign Series Next Generation, all of the above plus:

[*]Loss Points, positive and negative (for civilian casualties etc.)
[*]Objectives, with possibly variable VPs and possibly accruing per turn; and possibly varying also via the CSEE
[*]Event Points, for all manner of things, including extra points for unit losses and kills

It is a much richer, more nuanced battlefield now. Don't be thinking in the past. For victory, what matters more now than losses and taking objectives might be other, special considerations and events.

Pay close attention to the scenario description and (if available) CSEE scenario briefing (at scenario start).

It requires that the scenario designer (and Lua script author) take special care to explain the mission carefully, and to drop hints, subtle or hammered home, as needed.

Then it is up to the player to read and digest those explanations and hints, and to think outside the box.

Again, this all warrants special emphasis.
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
Big Ivan
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:34 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Big Ivan »

OK, outside the box it is then.

My problem as an old fart Campaign Series player cutting my teeth on East Front 1998 (How many iterations back is that? [&:]),

The darn box is sometimes smarter than I am but I'll keep working at it until the cows come home...

I already learned the painful truth in CSME that killing civilians is not the way to go...
Blitz call sign Big Ivan.
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »


But especially in a guerrilla war such as Vietnam, you would agree that killing civilians, whether accidentally or worse deliberately, is bad and should impact assessment of "victory"?

Vietnam especially is not a WWII-style kind of conventional war. If we are to portray it accurately, we need to consider collateral damage and other aspects.

But yeah, it sucks when you play one of these Campaign Series NG games in the old fashioned way and lose badly. (Which is what I did in a recent playtest.) Play and learn? [;)]
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »


Last December (while we were waiting for CSME's soon-to-be release), I was playtesting the then current CS:Vietnam. With helicopters that could park themselves over the battlefield, fly around and shoot things up, never have to return to base to refuel or resupply. Queens of the battlefield they were. (Think chess. Yes, they were that powerful.) Lots of fun, but ... was it truly Vietnam?

So I set to work on implementing, in Jason's description, "Helicopters 2.0". Also implementing other new game features, and the tweaking of older features, to better simulate warfare as it was truly fought in Vietnam. We are introducing some new things, but not every new thing or wish list item. It will still be recognizably the Campaign Series, just with a few more needed bells & whistles.

There will still be set piece battles, even battles of a more conventional war type, especially in the later years (when the impatient NVA brought push to shove; think also Dien Bien Phu). But there need to be smaller scale guerilla war type battles also, with a strong political element as depicted in the victory conditions and other game features.

There will be much variety. But consistently an old-style, straightforward WWII era shoot-em-up? No, not Vietnam. Not if we want to remain true to history.
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
Big Ivan
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:34 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Big Ivan »

I agree whole heartedly berto.

A lot has changed in warfare since the end of WWII. There was/is a lot more to consider in Vietnam and through
today when engaging the enemy. CSME brings a bit of that to the table. It looks like CS'Nam will bring even more.

We old CS guys will have to think out of the box for sure with the new CS generation coming up! Some of us will adapt
faster than others. It will be a fun ride for sure nonetheless!

Play and Learn, Yes that's a good way of looking at it![;)]
Blitz call sign Big Ivan.
User avatar
BigDuke66
Posts: 2007
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Terra

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by BigDuke66 »

I said it more than once but I can't say it often enough, looking forward to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
Big Ivan
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:34 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Big Ivan »

ORIGINAL: berto


Last December (while we were waiting for CSME's soon-to-be release), I was playtesting the then current CS:Vietnam. With helicopters that could park themselves over the battlefield, fly around and shoot things up, never have to return to base to refuel or resupply. Queens of the battlefield they were. (Think chess. Yes, they were that powerful.) Lots of fun, but ... was it truly Vietnam?

So I set to work on implementing, in Jason's description, "Helicopters 2.0". Also implementing other new game features, and the tweaking of older features, to better simulate warfare as it was truly fought in Vietnam. We are introducing some new things, but not every new thing or wish list item. It will still be recognizably the Campaign Series, just with a few more needed bells & whistles.

There will still be set piece battles, even battles of a more conventional war type, especially in the later years (when the impatient NVA brought push to shove; think also Dien Bien Phu). But there need to be smaller scale guerilla war type battles also, with a strong political element as depicted in the victory conditions and other game features.

There will be much variety. But consistently an old-style, straightforward WWII era shoot-em-up? No, not Vietnam. Not if we want to remain true to history.

Awesome indeed!![:)]
Blitz call sign Big Ivan.
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »


Some more recent (private) Dev Forum posts.

Still in its early stages, this.
ORIGINAL: berto
ORIGINAL: berto

I have achieved scripted AI movement by way of Lua CSEE commands. Not just unvarying scripted movement hard coded at the point of scenario design, but dynamically scripted movement adapting to changing game conditions as the scenario plays out.

If you don't appreciate how this will revolutionize the game, you haven't been paying attention. [;)]

A quick, brief sneak peek at a simple, rudimentary test case:

function on_next_phase (turn, side) -- DO NOT REMOVE

if turn <= 15 then
set_ai({33}, 39, 78, MOVE_HIGH)
elseif turn <= 35 then
set_ai({33}, 78, 39, MOVE_LOW)
else
set_ai({33}, -1, -1, NO_ORDER)
end

end

That's just the barest of beginnings. We can extend the concept far, far beyond that. For example, dynamically compute the turn, the trackid, the hex, the aiorder. In a complex web of interactive Lua functions taking into account, and responding to, all manner of game conditions and events.

Imagine the possibilities! [X(]
ORIGINAL: berto

Another quicky mock-up:

function on_next_phase (turn, side)

...

if map_above (_21ST_PARALLEL, VIET_MINH_SIDE) then
set_ai(2ND_BATTALION_FR, TAM_DUONG, MOVE_HIGH)
end

...

end

Now imagine where every one of

[*]_21ST_PARALLEL
[*]TAM_DUONG [the 2nd Battalion destination]
[*]MOVE_HIGH [MOVE_LOW, ...]

(and so much more) is, not a hard-coded value, rather a computed variable showing the Viet Minh presence threshold row, the 2nd Battalion destination hex, the order given.

Potentially dozens and dozens of such contingent movements, on and on and on, as complex a battle plan as the scen designer/modder cares to make it.

Take a look again at all the many CSEE functions we have available, and still more to to come.

The possibilities are nearly endless!
Stuff like

if random (100) <= 50 then
french_battle_plan_a ()
else
french_battle_plan_b ()
end

for a 50-50 chance of the French pursuing Battle Plan A, else B.

How about?

if isolated (_3RD_BATTALION_US) or
not cleared (GIO_LINH, NVA_SIDE) then
set_ai(_2ND_BATTALION_US, THON_CAM_LO, MOVE_HIGH)
end

And on and on and on.
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »


More on scripted AI movement. Note the link to the MP4 video showing the scripted AI movement in action.
ORIGINAL: berto
ORIGINAL: berto

I have achieved scripted AI movement by way of Lua CSEE commands. Not just unvarying scripted movement hard coded at the point of scenario design, but dynamically scripted movement adapting to changing game conditions as the scenario plays out.
Seeing is believing. [8D]

In the video available here, you will see:

[*]Beginning at Turn 1, the left force moves northward. The right force stays put.
[*]At Turn 10, the left force takes a sharp right angle turn to the east, and moves in that direction. The right force begins moving northward.
[*]At Turn 20, both forces start moving, diagonally in parallel, to the northwest.

Up until Turn 30, these are scripted AI movements of a type never before possible in the Campaign Series. Until now, the Campaign Series AI has only been able to move forces, generally in a straight line, directly toward objectives. Now, with scripted AI, forces can be moved here, moved there, moved anywhere, with the here, the there, and the anywhere being completely arbitrary. This is a fundamentally different type of AI movement.

[*]At Turn 30, the scripted movement ceases, and normal, legacy, AI attack ensues.

Even though control has passed to the attack AI, at any point in the attack we can instruct the AI to redirect the attack, to call off the attack, to retreat even, again as scripted actions.

Here is the CSEE Lua code directing the force movements in the video:

Image

The top section is the code to script the left force. The bottom section scripts the right force movement.

'{160,161,162}' are the trackids of the units in the left force. '{293,294,295}' are the trackids of the right force units.

Instead of numbers, we could employ mnemonics, the code could read something like

if turn == 1 then
set_ai(COMPANY_A, WAYPOINT1, MOVE_HIGH)
end
if turn == 10 then
set_ai(COMPANY_A, WAYPOINT2, MOVE_HIGH)
end
if turn == 20 then
set_ai(COMPANY_A, WAYPOINT3, MOVE_HIGH)
end
if turn == 30
set_ai(COMPANY_A, NOWHERE, NO_ORDER) -- end scripted movement, the legacy AI attack assumes control
end

And so on.

Again
That's just the barest of beginnings. We can extend the concept far, far beyond that. For example, dynamically compute the turn, the trackid, the hex, the aiorder. In a complex web of interactive Lua functions taking into account, and responding to, all manner of game conditions and events.

Imagine the possibilities! [X(]
So imagine, now we can script the AI to do

[*]Flanking movements, and round-about attacks from the rear.
[*]Way-point movements.
[*]Starts and stops.
[*]Retreats.

And all manner of fancy maneuvers. Whether in a single, pre-determined battle plan; or a set of such plans, with one of them selected at random; or a complex mix of plans and sub-plans selected on the fly in response to changing battlefield conditions.

...

That is just one battle plan. We could script others. To be selected at random, at scenario start. And/or adapting randomly or "intelligently" -- as intelligently as we can script it -- based on how the battle plays out.

I'm not saying that scripting like this will be easy. We can build framework code to simplify the scripting (hide away fussy details in high-level Lua functions, etc.). We can employ mnemonics (rather than numbers) to the hilt. But for all the challenges that lie ahead...

Imagine the possibilities.
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
Jason Petho
Posts: 15316
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Terrace, BC, Canada
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Jason Petho »

I really can't stress how much of a game-changer this is, especially from a scenario design point of view.
Nicholas Bell
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:21 pm
Location: Eagle River, Alaska

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Nicholas Bell »

If this can be tied to force correlation, losses/kills, etc it might be possible to better replicate human behavior on the battlefield. In any case it will be of great help in designing more realistic and replayable scenarios for those who understand how to use it.
User avatar
berto
Posts: 20884
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:15 am
Location: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by berto »

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

If this can be tied to force correlation, losses/kills, etc it might be possible to better replicate human behavior on the battlefield. In any case it will be of great help in designing more realistic and replayable scenarios for those who understand how to use it.
Yes, it can. The CSEE functions are in place to allow exactly that. It won't be easy, but with a bit of effort, almost anything is possible.
Campaign Series Legion https://cslegion.com/
Campaign Series Lead Coder https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10167
Panzer Campaigns, Panzer Battles, Civil War Battles Lead Coder https://wargameds.com
User avatar
Big Ivan
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:34 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Big Ivan »

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

If this can be tied to force correlation, losses/kills, etc it might be possible to better replicate human behavior on the battlefield. In any case it will be of great help in designing more realistic and replayable scenarios for those who understand how to use it.

Yes understanding how to use it, is the paramount issue. I'm not anywhere close to being even average at writing code. So I've got some work ahead of me.[:)]
Blitz call sign Big Ivan.
User avatar
Warhorse
Posts: 5364
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Contact:

RE: Sneak Peeks, Coming Attractions, Works-In-Progress

Post by Warhorse »

Ok, sorry been so quiet on my end, but have been very busy with graphics! Will try to post some highlights here as I go on. I do the unit 3D graphics, right now am about halfway down through the North Vietnamese. This icon, the Viet Minh Type 41 Infantry Gun just took about 4 hours to make from scratch, but am very happy with it! Most, if not all the Vietnamese graphics are being redone, so a lot to do!! Am thinking of putting vegetation camo on all the Vietnamese kit, either as a base, or more likely something one can add in as a JSGME mod!



Image
Attachments
VietnMinhType41.jpg
VietnMinhType41.jpg (19.39 KiB) Viewed 62 times
Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com
Post Reply

Return to “Campaign Series: Middle East 1948-1985”