Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

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sullafelix
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Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by sullafelix »

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.u ... eview.html

I really enjoy these series of games.

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JReb
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by JReb »

"After the battle the King can do what he likes with my head, but during the battle will he please allow me to use it"? (Friedrich Wilhelm Von Seydlitz answer to orders from Frederick The Great during the battle of Zorndorf).

Great quote...and yes, Grouchy screwed up at Waterloo. [:D]
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warspite1
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: JReb

"After the battle the King can do what he likes with my head, but during the battle will he please allow me to use it"? (Friedrich Wilhelm Von Seydlitz answer to orders from Frederick The Great during the battle of Zorndorf).

Great quote...and yes, Grouchy screwed up at Waterloo. [:D]
warspite1

Shouldn't Napoleon take a large slice of the blame for that? i.e. he was tardy in giving orders to Grouchy in the first place iirc.
As a wise man once asked:

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Aurelian
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: JReb

"After the battle the King can do what he likes with my head, but during the battle will he please allow me to use it"? (Friedrich Wilhelm Von Seydlitz answer to orders from Frederick The Great during the battle of Zorndorf).

Great quote...and yes, Grouchy screwed up at Waterloo. [:D]
warspite1

Shouldn't Napoleon take a large slice of the blame for that? i.e. he was tardy in giving orders to Grouchy in the first place iirc.

Yes he should.
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: JReb

"After the battle the King can do what he likes with my head, but during the battle will he please allow me to use it"? (Friedrich Wilhelm Von Seydlitz answer to orders from Frederick The Great during the battle of Zorndorf).

Great quote...and yes, Grouchy screwed up at Waterloo. [:D]
warspite1

Shouldn't Napoleon take a large slice of the blame for that? i.e. he was tardy in giving orders to Grouchy in the first place iirc.

Yes he should.
What was tardy about his orders?
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warspite1
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

Shouldn't Napoleon take a large slice of the blame for that? i.e. he was tardy in giving orders to Grouchy in the first place iirc.

Yes he should.
What was tardy about his orders?
warspite1

They were given hours later than they should have been.
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sullafelix
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by sullafelix »

Yes he should, but I was just discussing if Grouchy should have 'marched to the guns'.

The answer should be plain by Napoleon's own thinking when the French were not sure if it was Grouchy or Prussian's that they saw.

No own wrote down that Napoleon was annoyed that Grouchy might have marched to Waterloo. Which would have been completely against his orders.

Yes, Napoleon was tardy the day before. Yes, Wellington left 18,000 men off on his right and seemed to forget about them.

In the small context that I was discussing Grouchy and whether he should have at least tried to intercept the Prussians.

There are tons of instances where generals to corporals have disregarded orders and won battles.
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by Orm »

Could Grouchy, practically, have marched towards the sound of the guns even if he wanted to? Wasn't the route so difficult, and therefore slow, so that the march would take to long and he would have arrived to late to make a difference?

With that said I, personally, think he should have made an effort to try and reach the main battle at Waterloo.
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sullafelix
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by sullafelix »

Then again would his presence at all have caused the Prussians to turn on him?

After their drubbing at Ligny a lot of the Prussians thought that Wellington had let them down. So between attacking Frenchmen or going to aid Wellington what would they have chose?

Of course, what he said to them and when has been argued down through the years also.
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by JReb »

Louis-Adolphe Thiers (the nationalist French historian and politician who became ‘head of the executive power of the Republic’ after the fall of the Second Empire) says Grouchy’s conduct on 18 June doomed Napoleon:

“But now it must be admitted – though with sincere regret for attacking the memory of an honest man and a brave soldier, struck on this occasion with an unparalleled want of comprehension – it must, we repeat, be admitted that Marshal Grouchy was the real cause of our defeat, the material cause; for the moral one was to be sought elsewhere. We have been scrupulously exact in our detail of the events of that day, and there cannot be found a single valid excuse for his conduct, though during the last forty years many have sought to exculpate him.”

The emperor himself, recalling the Waterloo Campaign, also blamed the marshal:

“Finally, I triumphed even at Waterloo, and was immediately hurled into the abyss. On my right, the extraordinary maneuvers of Grouchy, instead of securing victory, completed my ruin.”

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... rders.html
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: sulla05

After their drubbing at Ligny a lot of the Prussians thought that Wellington had let them down.
warspite1

Why? If Wellington had broken a promise to Blucher without reason - why did Blucher agree to come to Wellington's aid?
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sullafelix
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RE: Scourge of War Waterloo DLC 'Wavre' review up on AWNT

Post by sullafelix »

It boils down to what the duke had said before Ligny and Quatre Bras.

I believe most English writers say it was "I will help IF I am not attacked myself" or some such. Meaning that the Duke would bring troops to fall on Napoleon as he attacked the Prussians at Ligny.

Many of the Prussian staff the night of their defeat at Ligny wanted to retreat toward Prussia instead of North and still keeping in contact with the English army.

Blucher was thee man that really deserves all of the credit. He forced the issue that he "had given his word' or some such, that he would help the English out if they were attacked.

If my memory serves me, I believe that Wellington had no troops close enough to make it to Ligny on time even if Ney had not been at Quatre bras.

Ney was very slow also that day and the battle at Quatre Bras started in the afternoon.

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