Article on Tigers Unleashed

[wodin]

Just published an article on my experience testing Tigers Unleashed.

http://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.u ... -hard.html

[76mm]

Wodin, interesting article, and the game sounds like an interesting hobby project for you and Scott.

But I have to say that the fact that the game is still being fixed four years after release pretty much proves the point that the game was no where close to be ready for release when I bought it as a commercial (not beta) product four years ago. I can say with confidence that this game was the biggest rip-off I've ever purchased. I have not bought a game from HPS or Scott since, and doubt that I will ever do so.

This whole mess reminds me of WiF here on Matrix to some extent, with one major difference: at least WiF's developer is an active participant in the forum, posting about latest developments and plans, responding to questions, etc. For the couple of years I followed TU's forum, I don't recall Scott posting even a single time, not once... For a dev to sell a half-baked game and then not bother to engage with the community at all is simply inexcusable in my view. You call him "reclusive", I call him unresponsive, unprofessional, and not someone I want to buy any more games from.

[wodin]

Fair enough. However the next patch will be a huge improvement.

If I had been involved pre TU release I'd have talked Scott out of releasing it. I think it wa smainly down to the lack of help and testers why it went out the way it did.

As for the game I pretty happy that if the game was running the way it is for me now I'd have been happy for Scott to release it. Now we are more at the stage of tweaking things to get the game playing out in a historical manner than it is about fixing game killing bugs.

TU is at the stage that something like TOTH is in..i.e a work in progress rather than a bug ridden mess.

I've told SCott what the feeling is out on the forums and he truely is devastated about the situation.

I can also vouch for him and that he really is a genuine decent person.

As for talking with him. If you or anyone else email him he will always reply. It's just that he is so busy working on the game he really doesn't want to take time away from that to monitor and respon to people on forums.

Finally the game is way beyond comaprisons to WIF at this point.

Also if you'd have contacted Scott about your feelings you would have been given a total refund.

It's really tough working on something for many many hours to imporve the game and make it fullfill it's potential not just for myself but for everyone all the time knowing the customer base is uber pi##ed AND knowing the game has a terrible reputation. STill we will carry on.

I think just like in Peter og TOTH case people need to know this also is a labour of love by really just one man. We too have no money to hire people to do things. So once the next patch comes TU needs to be viewed in the same light as TOTH, a ongoing WIP and the game will just keep on getting better and better easy surpassing the original design.

One last thing alot of things we've done have been to improve systems that where working OK at the time at the same tiome as fixing anyy erros as they show up. Thankfully errors are extremely rare and usually only appear when the first test exe is sent..and then veyr quickly fixed after words for the next test exe.

[76mm]

Wodin, thanks for your input, helpful. And while I appreciate he doesn't like forums, it is not like the TU one is very active, and it would probably take about 15 minutes a month to pop in, read the latest posts, say a few words, and get back to the game. To me, that would make a huge difference, rather than this Wizard-of-Oz persona he has adopted.

[operating]

Read your article, I'd give credit where credit is due and certainly believe it is due here...[:)]

[wodin]

I've passed on the message:)

I will say this after reading my article he said soon people will be sick of me talking....

operating..thankyou. It is disheartening reading peoples views even though they are fully justified. So it's always a big boost when we get abit of praise. I do know recent test patches have been well received by some who also had bad feelings about the game.

[76mm]

If you tell us when the next patch is released (I stopped following that forum years ago), I will try to scrounge up my copy of the game and give it a try. God knows we could use more good tactical games.

[zakblood]

i'm always around for testing if needed wodin for this or any game anywhere tbh, i'm not doing that much atm so if needed, i can always fit another one in and find the spare hours through the week if needed or wanted

[budd]

Tactical is my scale and I've followed the game for awhile. If it ever gets to a happy place ill buy it. What I'd like to see is some youtube lets plays for it, let Hof or Das or that historical wargamer guy do some lets plays. I think to turn things around your going have to show people it ain't broke.

[Agathosdaimon]

i am very happy to see Tigers Unleashed getting attention still, it is in good state now as it is and an further improvements a bonus, it is an acquired taste really - a simulation to just quietly consider, to play really over a while, - it has alot of features to it, though it is not too hard to just start playing with, i like it alot and hope for more like it!

i agree with the article that Scott Hamilton has been very happy to communicate on the continued work on TU - i recall a few years back contacting him about a problem i was having with teh AI firing on its own units that were in the same hex, and Scott then addressed this in an update.

[budd]

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

i am very happy to see Tigers Unleashed getting attention still, it is in good state now as it is and an further improvements a bonus, it is an acquired taste really - a simulation to just quietly consider, to play really over a while, - it has alot of features to it, though it is not too hard to just start playing with, i like it alot and hope for more like it!

i agree with the article that Scott Hamilton has been very happy to communicate on the continued work on TU - i recall a few years back contacting him about a problem i was having with teh AI firing on its own units that were in the same hex, and Scott then addressed this in an update.

How's the documentation that comes with the game, is there a tutorial? The product page doesnt really give much info. How many scenarios or campaigns? Do the scenarios play out differently each time or is the AI scripted. The only reviews i could find are at least 4 years old. Has the turn processing time improved a lot.If the game has improved a bunch, the game needs some pub.

[Agathosdaimon]

Hi Budd!
There are round 36 premade scenarios of varying length and size and the turn processing time has reduced somewhat, but it probably still is a bit lengthy and that could be admittedly irksome - it is interesting once the action starts though, but it could otherwise be something frustrating or boring at other tmes maybe.
There are no campaigns, just the scenarios that take place between september 1939 and november 1942.

I havent played all the scenarios multiple times to see how much the randomisation is, but there was one that i did play a few times, a smaller one, it was one which i was having AI problems with so was playing it a few times amidst the contact with Scott Hamilton - 1941 Monster Tanks scenario - i do recall that the tanks were not in the exact same positions each time, also there are so many variables going with just what you can do with your own side alone, it is possible that perhaps even just the butterfly effect of some small change somewhere could lead to some other bigger change later

something with the sighting in game i would still like to know though - whether when my unit spots an enemy whether they automatically spot me too, and vice versa

[Agathosdaimon]

Actually i just now decided to play TU again as i realised i had not played it since the last update and it is running alot faster in its turn process, alot more seemed to be happening in quicker succession, whereas before every little action seemed to be happening only one at a time

also there are some improvements on the graphics and little unit pictures that appear when you click on a unit and that helps also to just let you know what the little symbol means

I would though still like to see an easier way to set unit speeds - if there was at least some buttons on the movement plot window where one could just hit some quck speed pre-sets - ie slow, medium- fast- max etc

also i still am sometimes unsure whether an infantry unit has a vehicle with it, whether i need to manually load them in or if that just happens automatically when i set a movement command. some units will list an opel blitz, while others dont but i can still say move them all at like 70kph

[wodin]

Check your Staff Officer screens..it will say who is a passenger. If your units are unloaded you have to load them yourself..your bets using Manoeuvre groups to give orders (read manual)..makes playing ALOT better)

If you said yes to update to my new symbol set what ever the symbol shows is what the unit is..(unless you are using composite mechanic, which I DON'T recommend)

Things are much better again than what they are with the last released patch..much better..

The scenario designer can now also actually name the units using the proper abbreviations and say the actual historical unit etc etc..a new feature..

[wodin]

The article has brought some very good news to the TU team. That's because Nick bell an old colleague of Scott's has historical maps made for TU, hundreds of hours of work worth..so these will be in TU hopefully next patch..this is something I've been wanting for TU for ages now..it's great news. Nick bell was working with Scott on Tiger son the Prowl until he had to stop during TU development ..a HUGE loss I think thatw as at the time..one that probably put TU back a long time in development and contributed to the state TU was in on release.

[Agathosdaimon]

the next update sounds great! new maps too! i am not sure what you are referring to thought re composite mechanic - i have not done any kind of modding to TU - i just installed it and the updates and i think the last one was the one from teh Dogsofwar site that was a few months back

[wodin]

You can use composite units where the platoon becomes one unit or non composite where it's divided into rifle, LMG, Smg etc etc..non composite is the way to play and use manoeuvre groups

Reading the manual is a MUST do![:)]

[kipanderson]

Wodin, hi,

what is the latest news on TU?

Is that patch out yet? Have been watching since its release. But the problems lead to holding off, but if not too buggy anymore then maybe time. Scale and scope and engine in principal all great.

Thanks..
All the best,
Kip.

[Red2112]

I red his article (Scott) some time ago, and did some intensive search on the web regarding TU and POA2.5 to see what the real state of both games was on the user side...

To make a long story short...

- Not much feedback on the actual product page, the info is quite old which in turn give´s one the sense of a abandon/vaporware product. Not only at HPS but in general everywhere you look on the web.
- As is the HPS site seems unkeeped, old and not quite up to date, which again make´s one think twice.
- The price is way to expensive for a unfinished product, which again dose not show to much care (hardly no news or updates) and that HPS dosent show support for. (no dedicated forum, and send us a e-mail for support is not quite the norm in some cases).

I was mainly interested in POA2.5 as Iam more into modern gear, but would not have minded TU either. Both showed complexity in hit-points and other areas which I find to my likeing, but since all of the above, add some bug reports and a steep price tag just put me off the whole deal. Mind you I was VERY tempted to pull the trigger on POA2.5, but all of the above had more weight then my Visa card!

I do understand that there is work going on and passionate people behind it, but a recent article (old by now) and a promising patch (also old by now as all of this was known at the start of the year), is not gonna make people change there minds that easy.

Iam sure it will turn out to be a good product one day, but If I would have spent €60 on it and STILL be waiting for a update (4 years later), I would be quite upset with the whole deal right now.

I wish Scott all the luck, and if POA2.5 get´s polished some day then I might think of buying it.

I have supported unfinished games in the past, but it get´s to a point were you want something in return and not light years from when you supported it. Who knows what will happen to you tomorrow...

--

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Red2112
...but If I would have spent €60 on it and STILL be waiting for a update (4 years later), I would be quite upset with the whole deal right now.

Yeah, that kind of sums it up. The only similar experience I've had is with WiF, but with WiF there is a HUGE difference, in that despite the half-baked state of the game upon release, there has been a steady flow of patches and, just as important, posts by the developer about what he's doing, current challenges, etc.

With TU, crickets from the day they took my money...