Still Air Dropping Supply with Current Rules?

[rainman2015]

I haven't played the game as the German with the following new rules (i.e. the ones that nerf the amount of supplies and fuel that get dropped by JU-52s and bombers to front line panzer/motorized divisions, and the one that causes the unit to lose 1/7th of its MPs if it receives an air drop), and am in turn 1 of a new campaign game using 1.08.09 playing the Germans, so now curious how others are dealing with the new air drop rules, so a couple of questions.

Here are the new rules:

(v1.08.05)
1) In order to be able to use an airbase for airhead supply, or to prevent cargo loss during regular air drops, the airbase must not have moved this turn.
2) After receiving air dropped cargo, target unit will have its movement points and strategic movement points reduced by 1/7 of default allowance (rounding up). This doesn’t apply to units receiving airhead supply or isolated units.

Questions:

1) Are German players still, with the new rules, air dropping supplies and fuel to their front line panzers/mot divisions, or are you avoiding the 1/7th MP loss?

2) Are you maybe now air dropping supplies/fuel directly to Pz Corp HQ instead of directly to the divisions themselves (i used to air drop directly to the divisions themselves, not to the Corps HQ for the panzers). If you air drop to the Corps HQ, i would guess that only the Corps HQ would lose 1/7th of its MPs, not nearly as big a deal as if you dropped directly to the divisions individually.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Randy

[morvael]

I'm dropping after all movement is done, preferably with friendly airbase in long-controlled hex (doable if you fight to keep an encirclement for a second turn, or if you can withdraw some panzers a little when things are not so mobile). I also dropped a lot during First Winter, when my panzers were on the frontlines (not enough infantry) and supplies were limited. Obviously these were all done with friendly airbase nearby as I was defending. I'm not dropping to HQs, it's not effective (they'll just as for less and units will get similar amount, unless the HQ is stuffed to higher % than supply modifiers allow). I also do desperate drops on first turn of a breakthrough (without friendly airbase nearby) if I know my panzers may be encircled during enemy turn. That way when I unblock them they will have some MPs and the ability to fight. Of course it's a great waste of resources - out of 220 tons dropped you get 70, but 30% fuel is better than 5%, right?

[uw06670]

playing with 1.08.09

I did air drops of fuel to a PZ Corp HQ and noticed that suddenly the MP dropped from 50 to 10. Do I lose 1/7 of my MPs per air drop on the unit?

Morvael, I don't understand your comment about dropping fuel to HQ not being effective. If my Pz Divisions are in pending friendly hexes, air dropping fuel to them causes much of the fuel to not hit the target (even if an AB is next to it). Whereas the HQ with an AB a few hexes back in friendly space gets like 95% of the fuel and then disperses it to the dependent units next turn.

[Mamluke]

Im also wondering, in order to use the Army airbase to drop supplies efficiently, does the Airbase ONLY need to be adjacent to the unit? or in the same hexe as the unit?

PS: this also works with the Soviets right?

[uw06670]

adjacent works

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: morvael

I'm dropping after all movement is done, preferably with friendly airbase in long-controlled hex (doable if you fight to keep an encirclement for a second turn, or if you can withdraw some panzers a little when things are not so mobile). I also dropped a lot during First Winter, when my panzers were on the frontlines (not enough infantry) and supplies were limited. Obviously these were all done with friendly airbase nearby as I was defending. I'm not dropping to HQs, it's not effective (they'll just as for less and units will get similar amount, unless the HQ is stuffed to higher % than supply modifiers allow). I also do desperate drops on first turn of a breakthrough (without friendly airbase nearby) if I know my panzers may be encircled during enemy turn. That way when I unblock them they will have some MPs and the ability to fight. Of course it's a great waste of resources - out of 220 tons dropped you get 70, but 30% fuel is better than 5%, right?

So, i am hearing that the old airdrops to the streaking (far out in front of everyone else in 41) panzer and motorized divisions themselves is over with the new rules. That 1/7th MP loss thing is a killer.

So, if you wait to drop to them until AFTER they move during a turn, does that in any way affect their MPs for the NEXT turn?

And, for the far out in front in 41 panzer/mot divisions, no way that you will have, at the end of a turn when you are dropping to them, an airbase that started the turn next to them, since they are moving forward the whole turn. Unless they have stopped to rest, wait on infantry or something, you will not have an airbase next to your panzer/mot divisions when you drop to them (at least not one that started the turn there).

Randy

[rainman2015]

I am taking that an army airbase (recon airbase) does work for the 'airbase next to them' rule, right?

Randy

[uw06670]

ORIGINAL: rainman2015

I am taking that an army airbase (recon airbase) does work for the 'airbase next to them' rule, right?

Randy

yes it does

[morvael]

No effect on MP next turn.

I don't like HQ drops because they are subject to HQ-unit penalties when delivering (so units get less). Also, in some fluid situations units may get separated from HQ and will get nothing, which may be a disaster. Also, HQ will give fuel to itself and supports which won't help to raise MP of my combat units. So you need to drop much more to HQ than to its combat units. This may work in some cases of course, but in some it's worse. Per ton dropped (of course both with penalty or both without) you'll get more MP if you drop directly to combat units. If you can get to HQ without penalty and are sure units will not get separated then it's OK to drop there.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: morvael

No effect on MP next turn.

I don't like HQ drops because they are subject to HQ-unit penalties when delivering (so units get less). Also, in some fluid situations units may get separated from HQ and will get nothing, which may be a disaster. Also, HQ will give fuel to itself and supports which won't help to raise MP of my combat units. So you need to drop much more to HQ than to its combat units. This may work in some cases of course, but in some it's worse. Per ton dropped (of course both with penalty or both without) you'll get more MP if you drop directly to combat units. If you can get to HQ without penalty and are sure units will not get separated then it's OK to drop there.

OK, will be air dropping directly to panzer/motorized divisions just as before (i.e. not to Panzer Corps HQ units), and will do the drop only at the END of the movement phase, so that it has no effect on them losing any MPs. Will try and use a forward airbase (including army recon bases) to be beside the panzers that have stopped to rest for a turn when they get resupplied by air transports, although this will be tough i am guessing to pull off in most cases.

Thanks for the hints!

Randy