Surviving the marsh

[nukkxx5058]

Any advise on how surviving the marsh east of Brest as the Germans ?
Avoiding it ? but Soviets will rush through it toward Brest. So what should I do ?
Thanks ...

[Steve110]

Against the AI so far all I've done is send a skirmish line of Divisions through it until I meet Soviets, usually about 2-3 hexes east of where you are now. From there I just go on the defensive, keeping just enough in the marshes to prevent any serious AI advance while hitting Kiev & the Mogliev delta areas hard North & South of it.

The AI is adverse to impending encirclement, so at this point it will usually start withdrawing of its own accord.

Can't say against PBEM opponents. Have started a couple of games but only at turn 4-6, so Soviet player not really had the time to decide whether they want to commit in the marshes or not.

cheers
Steve

[ChuckBerger]

I almost always rush at least one motorized division on turns 2 & 3 all the way through the marsh to the bridge at Gomel, to prevent exactly this sort of situation. Sometimes I send the entire 2nd PzG through the marshes to Gomel, from which they can either strike north to take the Dniepr crossings from behind, or head straight to Smolensk, or reassign to AGS and grab Kiev on the cheap from the North.

But now that the Soviets are in the marshes in force, you have little choice but to try and establish a continuous screen of infantry. Then, as Steve says, surround the marshes by a thrust south from Mogilev and north from Kiev. You'll force him to pull back, or if you do it well you could surround and bag 30 divisions.

I can't see the full strategic situation, but looks like you need to pull 6th Army well back to form a continuous line, linking up with 2nd Army in AGC and further to 4th Army. Get 2nd PzG out of there - they have no business messing around in the swamps! Get those guys across the Dniepr. Your HQ should be up with the panzers. And in the south, focus on Kiev and drive north from there.

[FeurerKrieg]

I just recently sent the entire PzG2 into AGS to help the initial push towards the main objective (at the time) of Rostov. I sent some elements of 4th Army into the marsh, and the bulk to the north. After a bit, I just brought PzG3 and PzG2 back together at Gomel and trapped a huge pocket in the marsh. I have just enough in the west, plus an out-of-command infantry division from PzG2 in the southwest, to keep them contained while I slowly kill them off. So basically, the two PGs went around the entire marsh area and did a double envelopment.

It wasn't exactly planned that way, but it worked out well.

This is against AI and I had Hitler favorable relationship for the PG2 transfer to AGS.

[RandomAttack]

What I was able to do once was pocket a large group in the marsh and then just IGNORE them. Once they are out of supply they can't move, and I didn't want to waste time & effort wiping them out as I had other places to be. Might have lost a few VPs (?), but saved a lot of time. Let 'em starve...they are no longer a threat.

[nukkxx5058]

Thanks for comments , advice and analysis ! It shows a vast array of options...

Yes, my 6th Army has been put in an incredible mess in the south of the swamp. I already started to pull it back but it's painful. In the north of the marsh the situation is not brilliant neither. Just hope the 2nd army received in reinforcement will be able to help getting out this marshy mess.
Picture below shows the development of the situation (played before reading your various comments). But now I'm afraid they take Lublin ! (( Will send 2nd army south to protect it. I'm obliged to retreat. It's a disaster

This game is incredibly subtle and the level of strategy is impressive. I'm really struggling as a German against the AI and so far I haven't had a chance to succeed.

But I'm having real fun !

[nukkxx5058]

S_map
Having many troubles on the 3 theaters

[nukkxx5058]

zoom out north

[nukkxx5058]

zoom out south

[baloo7777]

Again it appears that things can be done vs the AI that would be a disaster against a good pbem opponent. At least against the couple (very good) Russian opponents I've played, I doubt sending the whole PzG2 through the swamp with its single minor rail line would be successful.

[ChuckBerger]

Re: Gomel, there's not a thing any Russian player can do about it. Turn 1 breakthrough, turn 2 halfway into the marsh, turn 3 take Gomel and beyond. On this schedule, the most the Reds can do is put a minor garrison in Gomel, but that's only an annoyance. There's no chance of getting any other troops there in time.
The strategy has pros and cons. It uses a lot of fuel, and probably delays capture of Minsk by at least a turn. On the other hand it facilitates easy capture of mogilev crossings, or if you like allows capture of Kiev really early. I've used it successfully against very good human players, especially because few players expect it. The Kiev gambit is very unsettling...