Question on targets' missile defence value.

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cns180784
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Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

I have a SEAD patrol setup with 12 a/c armed with AGM-88B which will serve as SEAD for a bomber strike on an amphibious group. I pretty much know the HARMs will target the AN/SPG-60 STIR FCR as the primary threat which is on 2 of the 5 frigates (that defend the amphibious vessels) and this FCR guides their RIM66E6 missiles. I'm thinking for WRA to leave it as targets missile defence value, but what is the missile defence value for that FCR? or will it go by the defence value of the frigate?

I'm hoping with a total of 24 HARMs that there will be enough to overwhelm the defences of those 2 frigates with enough HARMs to also target the WM.25 on the other 3 frigates which guides their Aspide missiles.
Rory Noonan
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by Rory Noonan »

I think the missile defence value is the average total amount of incoming missiles needed to overwhelm the combat systems allowing for enough to get through and destroy the ship. Therefore if your aim is to just destroy the FCR then you won't need the same number as 'missile defence value'. If I were in your shoes I'd look at the DB and see how fast their SAM launchers can fire, work out flight time for the HARMs, give the SAMS an arbitrary ~70% hit rate and work out how many HARMS I needed that way.

I imagine you're talking about Canary's Cage, since I faced this problem a couple of days ago hitting that amphibious group in the south. I think I used 6 or 8 HARM shooters and followed them up with harpoon shooters. The 'Perry' type frigates you were talking about were my main targets, as I had two diesel subs lying in wait to finish off the rest of the group. Using the Falcon ECM as support, I was able to destroy the FCR on both Perry frigates, which meant the harpoons (about 30s behind the HARMS) were able to get through and do some damage. IIRC one of the Perry types was still afloat after this attack as its CIWS was still functioning, but since it had no FCR for SAMs I think I took it out with LGBs in the end. The subs then made a meal of the rest of the group.
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cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

Yea for the perry class frigates it has for missile defence value 16 Harpoon/SLAM/mavericks. So if i was to go for targets' missile defence value with the target being that FCR then i guess they'd only fire 1 HARM at it. Think i'll go for 8 rnds instead.

I previously had 2 strikes on that group fail, the first was a 4 ship with harpoons targeting the 4 amphibious vessels, all harpoons were shot down by SAMs. There would have been 7 a/c but had to divert 3 to strike a group of enemy patrol boats with good ASM's (Ramadans). The second strike was 5 a/c with harpoons and 6 a/c with HARMs but that didnt go as planned, 3 of the HARM a/c didnt fire their weapons as they were used as escorts for the strike and had to refuel- the rest of the strike group left them behind. I posted about this problem in tech support. That strike only managed to sink one of the targets, since then i tried using my subs S63 and S73 to attack the 3 remaining amphibious vessels which in the end succeeded in sinking one, but both subs were sunk by ASW choppers.

So this now will be my 3rd attempted air strike on the group, i'm hoping it will sink the 2 remaining vessels, and at least the 2 perry class frigates. But no harpoons left at Moron AB means i'm going with an 8 ship strike on the vessels with LGB's- a risky task but running out of options (GBU-10E). Hopefully the 24 incoming HARMs will keep their air defences busy.
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by SeaQueen »

If you've got 'em, shoot 'em. Why be stingy?
cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

Well i would like some of the HARMs to fire at the other frigates too, obviously i want all of them to fire and if i know so many is enough to overwhelm the perry class frigates then the rest of the HARMs can fire at the others.
Aivlis
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by Aivlis »

Mild spoilers ahead, unless you don't mind some advice. In my own playthrough of this scenario, I found that:

1. The Perry-class frigates are quite good at screening missile volleys, even ones not directed right at them, so go all in, spreading your salvo across them.
2. Time is not on your side to deal with the surface group, they are edging out of the range of your land-based aviation.
3. If I recall correctly there are clouds in that scenario, so if you end up having to use LGBs you're in for some fancy flying to illuminate for them.
4. A ship damaged enough to slow down the rest is a blessing.
Rory Noonan
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by Rory Noonan »

ORIGINAL: cns180784

Yea for the perry class frigates it has for missile defence value 16 Harpoon/SLAM/mavericks. So if i was to go for targets' missile defence value with the target being that FCR then i guess they'd only fire 1 HARM at it. Think i'll go for 8 rnds instead.

8 should do it, but I just want to clarify that missile defence values don't quite work like that. If you're shooting at a Perry, the Perry's missile defence value is used, regardless of which particular bit of the Perry you're shooting at.
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cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

ORIGINAL: Aivlis

Mild spoilers ahead, unless you don't mind some advice. In my own playthrough of this scenario, I found that:

1. The Perry-class frigates are quite good at screening missile volleys, even ones not directed right at them, so go all in, spreading your salvo across them.
2. Time is not on your side to deal with the surface group, they are edging out of the range of your land-based aviation.
3. If I recall correctly there are clouds in that scenario, so if you end up having to use LGBs you're in for some fancy flying to illuminate for them.
4. A ship damaged enough to slow down the rest is a blessing.

Theres' been no clouds so far in the scenario and theres' a day and 12 hrs left. Maybe the weather could change but seeing as Canarys Cage was one of the first scenarios made for Command, i believe (was also a scenario from Harpoon i think) then i'd imagine there was no lua scripting back when it was made to enable weather changes...i could be wrong.

As for the range to the surface group yea it is getting longer and my Falcon ECM a/c wont be able to make the next strike attempt and cant be refuelled but all the F/A-18's can be so no problem in carrying out this forthcoming strike.
cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

ORIGINAL: apache85

ORIGINAL: cns180784

Yea for the perry class frigates it has for missile defence value 16 Harpoon/SLAM/mavericks. So if i was to go for targets' missile defence value with the target being that FCR then i guess they'd only fire 1 HARM at it. Think i'll go for 8 rnds instead.

8 should do it, but I just want to clarify that missile defence values don't quite work like that. If you're shooting at a Perry, the Perry's missile defence value is used, regardless of which particular bit of the Perry you're shooting at.

Heres' a question if i was to set the WRA for the HARMs to fire all weapons, then would all 12 a/c fire their HARMs at the one FCR on one of the perrys?
mikmykWS
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by mikmykWS »

ORIGINAL: cns180784

ORIGINAL: apache85

ORIGINAL: cns180784

Yea for the perry class frigates it has for missile defence value 16 Harpoon/SLAM/mavericks. So if i was to go for targets' missile defence value with the target being that FCR then i guess they'd only fire 1 HARM at it. Think i'll go for 8 rnds instead.

8 should do it, but I just want to clarify that missile defence values don't quite work like that. If you're shooting at a Perry, the Perry's missile defence value is used, regardless of which particular bit of the Perry you're shooting at.

Heres' a question if i was to set the WRA for the HARMs to fire all weapons, then would all 12 a/c fire their HARMs at the one FCR on one of the perrys?

Why do you keep asking other these questions instead of just trying it in the game?

Mike
cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

Ok i hadnt thought of it previously but realized i could experiment with the editor for this, so i created a blank scenario to test out exactly what i wanted to find out for the scenario i'm playing, but the 4 hornets on a SEAD patrol wont engage the perry class frigate thats' declared hostile and is within their patrol area.

Sorry to have to ask but i have tried to find out for myself. Can you look at the attached scenario to see why the hornets arent firing at the frigate? the frigate has radars emitting so cant see why they're not firing, thanks.
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SEADexperimenting.zip
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mikmykWS
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by mikmykWS »

Sure added to our list.

Mike
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by ComDev »

Fixed v1.11, thanks [8D]
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cns180784
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RE: Question on targets' missile defence value.

Post by cns180784 »

Ok thanks.
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