3M14 Klub

[janblanc]

I recently have tried to modify the ingame "Iron Hand" scenario, adding ships from the caspian flotilla armed with Klub land attack cruise missiles - in wake of the recent usage of these weapons against targets in Syria. I noticed that the DB3000 database I have in game gives them a range of 160 nm, while in fact it should be somewhere near ten times that number (Targets were hit at 1500kms, so about 1000 miles although the actual maximum range should be something more than that). Also, only subs have mounts with this weapon - Gepard frigates and Buyan missile boats are armed with the anti ship versions only.

Shouldn't this be addressed somehow?

best regards

[Rongor]

it was already reported in the DB3000 thread. Next DB may bring some improvements already (maybe even with todays release).

Btw. those land attack CMs are Kalibr, not Klub [;)]

[nico71]

And is there any reliable source for this extraordinary claim?

[Dimitris]

Hello,

There have been a lot of tweaks and updates for the Klub/Kalibr family and the UKSK VLS in the latest version of the DB3000, which will be released in a future update.

Thanks!

[janblanc]

Ok, nice that it's going to be corrected.

[Rongor]

ORIGINAL: nico71

And is there any reliable source for this extraordinary claim?

Despite not seeing what is so extraordinary about that "claim", you can check it in the announcements of the Russian Ministry of Defense, if that is reliable enough for you on that matter. For example here

[nico71]

A factor of ten is quite a bit. But by 'independent' I mean in the scientific sense, not a source of a faction that is involved in an ongoing war. If that's even possible. I don't know.

[DeltaIV]

Look at late 70's Tomahawk. Do you really expect a bit larger Russian CM introduced in 2010+ to perform worse ?

[nico71]

Apparently the DB authors did until recently! Which begs the question how reliable the DB information is.

[DeltaIV]

I wouldn't generalize. Available data concerning modern systems are always scarce, especially when we talk about Russian technology.

[nico71]

That's why I'm asking! I'm fairly new to CMANO and I want to know what I can expect from the DB. I don't expect precise data for the most modern systems but that this particular system was off by a factor of 10 surprised me.

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: nico71

That's why I'm asking! I'm fairly new to CMANO and I want to know what I can expect from the DB. I don't expect precise data for the most modern systems but that this particular system was off by a factor of 10 surprised me.

Pretty sure our sources are in the credits if you'd like to judge. I think our standard is higher than most.Ask around though.

Russian missiles are very difficult to pin down mostly because finding a credible source on them is an art and there tends to be a lot of conflicting information. Our standard is to not implement until we see pictures and reasonable stats and then adjust as information becomes clearer.

If you think we should approach it differently please let us know your suggestions.

Thanks

[nico71]

I didn't mean to criticize the work (far from it!) but wanted to know how this stuff works, especially when there are such huge swings in particular data.

[DeltaIV]

Everyone is free to suggest DB changes based on reliable sources, there are forum threads designated for that exact purpose. I'm quite sure that both community and devs try hard to keep the DBs accurate.

For the rest, blame the media and the lack of general critical thinking. I'm quite sure that those who really need to know can make good educated guesses based on the missile specs (dimensions, warhead, etc.) and some insight into Russian missile technology.

If the devs presented the now-correct missile range in the DB before the "official" medial assesment, you would probably see some comments that the official range of the missile is a lot less and that they're exaggerating the performance of the Russian technology (or seem to be KGB agents [:D]).

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: nico71

I didn't mean to criticize the work (far from it!) but wanted to know how this stuff works, especially when there are such huge swings in particular data.

If there are errors we correct them by next update.

Thanks

Mike

[Rongor]

Hey nico71, I earlier only replied to your questioning of the name Kalibr. I admit I can't provide sources for all details of that weapon, so I was lucky you asked for the name only[:)] since I could very well answer that one. So all is good (I hope)[;)]

[Rongor]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Russian missiles are very difficult to pin down mostly because finding a credible source on them is an art and there tends to be a lot of conflicting information.

Couldn't agree more! researching russki weaponry takes hours and days and still you will find as much reasons to be confused as you will gain valuable enlightment.

[Rongor]

ORIGINAL: nico71

And is there any reliable source for this extraordinary claim?

Nico71, you managed to let me feel unsure again. This lead to my post here.
I agree that reliable sources may look different, but I guess that is a problem accompanying us now and in the future, regarding the implementation of new weapons, especially Russian inventions.

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: Rongor


This lead to my post here.

The further break down is
Kalibr-S or Klub-S for a sub launched missile
Kalibr-N or Klub-N for a ship launched missile
Kalibr-A or Klub-A for the air launched missile

Kalibr-PL (not Kalibr-S) is name for whole system that incude sub launched missiles of Kalibr family and systems ensuring launch of these missiles from a submarine (like 3R-14PN,SM-878 etc.) same for Klub-S ,only with export missiles and systems

Kalibr-NK (not Kalibr-N)and Klub-N for systems with ship lauched missiles

Kalibr-A and Klub-A dont exist, this is only bait for Indian money ,they dont pay for that so this things dont exist

Also you forgot to add Kalibr-M and Klub-M (shore based complex):
http://concern-agat.ru/cache/com_zoo/im ... 109699.jpg

and Kalibr-K and Klub-K (container launched versions)

It is amusing to see how often people in th West forget this little thing that change everything,
you should not build a big warship to have ability to launch hundreds of missiles from Kalibr or Klab family,
just take any vessel put Kalibr-K or Klub-K containers on it, raise Navy flag and bang, you have warship capable of launching Kalibr/Klub missiles. Cheapest firepower in the world [:)].

[Rongor]

I just deleted that breakdown in my DB post. It doesn`t really play a role regarding the game anyways. Thanks for the insight!

Being one of your mentioned people from the West, I have to say that probably many of us don't forget but simply have a hard time to get decent insight in some of the eastern schematics.