Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

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Triode
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:18 pm

Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by Triode »

I think we all can agree that CMANO is very good game, and best tactical simulator available.
In this simulator, in area of air engagement, there is three very different thing given to us by devs : ships, planes and anti air defence systems.

So,if somebody is interested here are my thoughts

Ship is like house with furnishings, people often , when making scenario, dont change loadouts or change it in limits allowed by the system (like Mk41 and similar things)

Planes came without preferred loadout (house without furnishings) so we must choose loadout

But in case of surface anti-air defence systems devs give to us something very different,instead of house they gave us a brick ( so I call this Conception of Brick)

As you can see in database,most of SAM units is Battalions,Battery or platoons,
in other words minimum units that can fire missile , and in simple condition achieve hit on target.
In other word "brics".
In same section of database "Facility" you can find Radars,ELINT station,Jammers,close range air defence systems (windows,doors,doorstep,roof),
so,we have all thing to build a house...

Lets look how we do it in our scenarios from perspective of "brick" concept

Someone drop one brick in the middle of nowhere and say "Look, how mighty my house is, I build it with one brick"

Other, more advanced people, heard , that house must be built from multiple bricks
so they drop pile of bricks in the middle of nowhere and call it a house

Multiple attempts to build a house without roof and doors, without windows and doors and etc.


So consider this message as small hint "how to build a house"

here is few citation from Lieutenant Colonel A. Leontiev from St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace Engineering

"Organizational antiaircraft missile troops presented by antiaircraft missile brigades (ZRBr) and regiments (ZRP),
which are part of the divisions and corps of air defense."

so,in antiaircraft missile troops minimum organized unit is regiment

"If necessary, the brigade may include units radio-technical troops - separate radar company (ORLR)
- for more operational information support of fire departments on the air traffic situation.In this case, the brigade
contains units from two combat arms - ZRV and RTV therefore can not be part of the ZRV.This Brigade is a Brigade of air defense."

"Anti-aircraft missile regiment in cooperation with neighboring air defense units and formations, Fighters, parts of the country units and subunits EW forces
and air defense of the Ground Forces and the Navy to perform combat missions
to prevent strikes manned and unmanned air attack on the defending object (objects) and its breaking through the fire zone regiment into the territory."

As you can see there is antiaircraft missile brigades (ZRBr) and regiments (ZRP) and air defence brigades and regiments.

First can fire missiles in the air, second can fire missiles and hit the targets

While anti aircraft missile forces is just "bricks" , air defence forces with radar, EW and ELINT support from RTR forces is what air-defence really is.


"Level (regiment or brigade) military formations conducting the defense of the object (the size of area of responsibility)
depends on the needs of the number of fire departments.
Anti-aircraft missile regiment contains in its structure 6 and less ZRDN (battalions) , anti-aircraft missile brigade - over 6 ZRDN (battalions)."

so we need at least 6 bricks to build a house

If someone want to read full lecture from Senior teacher of the military department Lieutenant Colonel A. Leontiev here is link with
terrible google translation
https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... nOsqKoyIlw


I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my "bricks"
Yokes
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by Yokes »

Triode,

I'll be the first to admit to being one of the "brick" scenario designers. I rely heavily on being able to import pre-set airbases and air defense/ELINT/COMINT facilities. If those are lacking, I end up with "a pile of bricks" from me just guessing. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as many on this forum, so I am sure that I miss things or make dumb mistakes. I appreciate when folks point out these mistakes.

I think there are plenty of tools available for those (such as yourself) who have greater technical knowledge/experience:
1) Contribute to the collection of facility imports.
2) Provide examples and/or tutorial videos that share your experience. (I would love to watch a video of your process for building air defenses around various targets! [:)])
3) Provide feedback to scenario designers with specific suggestions. (You have done that for me, and I greatly appreciate it!)

Yokes
magi
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by magi »

Interesting....
Tomcat84
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:13 pm

RE: Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by Tomcat84 »

I think that's actually a great analogy with the bricks. Nice post [:)]
My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )
RoccoNZ
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:10 am

RE: Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by RoccoNZ »

Good post.

Personally I'd like to see air defence units made more granular. There have been a couple of situations where I've only been worried about an S-300 search radar because it was observing a transiting formation. The formation was outside of missile range, but opfor was still taking cues form the radar picture. I can either ignore or, or attack the entire unit. Lots of HARMS could do it, but there isn't a guarantee I can target and kill the radar I want. If I attack it with standoff missiles, the'll target the TELs before the radars. Not ideal!

I suspect to model individual elements requires comms links to be modelled.
Vici Supreme
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:06 pm
Location: Southern Germany

RE: Anti-Air Defence in CMANO

Post by Vici Supreme »

ORIGINAL: RoccoNZ

Good post.

Personally I'd like to see air defence units made more granular. There have been a couple of situations where I've only been worried about an S-300 search radar because it was observing a transiting formation. The formation was outside of missile range, but opfor was still taking cues form the radar picture. I can either ignore or, or attack the entire unit. Lots of HARMS could do it, but there isn't a guarantee I can target and kill the radar I want. If I attack it with standoff missiles, the'll target the TELs before the radars. Not ideal!

I suspect to model individual elements requires comms links to be modelled.

I also had this situation a couple of times. Especially when I had to disable a SAM with a limited strike loadout. I can imagine that the devs might come up with something at some point down the road.

Supreme
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