What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

Moderator: MOD_SPWaW

Post Reply
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 38308
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Erik Rutins »

This is purely a hypothetical question, so please don't get overly excited.

I want to pose this to the SP community to help inform my own thoughts on this subject with regard to the future of SPWAW and any (hypothetical) future SP-style game.

If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths, to give you the same feeling you had playing the original SP (or your favorite other version of SP).

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
zakblood
Posts: 22647
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by zakblood »

for me a new engine, with all the bits that go with it, 100% support for modern o/s etc and hardware, bigger,better and faster with more of everything, as to not changing what's not already broken, stick with the right formula and cover many wars and battles and time / periods as the engine can manage, with maps to match, different sizes and scale etc etc...

more of a upgrade to a total remake, idea is solid, campaigns are varied, same as scale, time and units involved, so stick with same format, add in new engine, new maps, new units with plenty of scope for missions, battles and joined campaigns, covering a few times not just a single time frame and another winner is done...

next[&o] [&o][&o]
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 22000) (22000.co_release.210604-1628)
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4692
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by 76mm »

Erik, thanks for the question... I'd be happy with:
1) full compatibility with modern OS;
2) generally upgraded graphics;
3) full editor support, particularly maps and units; and
4) the ability to edit save game files, or import/export game results to/from the game.
Riitaoja
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:45 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Riitaoja »

If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?
For me the most significant improvements in SPWAW over the original Steel Panthers games are:
-Much more realistic and detailed OOBs for the different nations.
-More detailed ballistic and armour calculations.
-Internet online play over TCP/IP.
-larger resolution 800x600 over the original DOS 640x480.
-Excellent sound system with hundreds of realistic sound effects for weapons and vehicles.
-More terrain features and buildings for maps.
-Engineers ability to lay mines as well as clear them.
-Gargo aircraft and gliders with paratroopers.
-Hundreds of other refinements in the combat code and game play too numerous to list here.
If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths, to give you the same feeling you had playing the original SP (or your favorite other version of SP).
Key feature would be that the game was still a top down 2D game with a turn based system similar to what we have in SPWAW now. It should not be 3D or have some sort of real time or semi-turn based system. We already have those 3D games with the Combat Mission series and the real time version with the Close Combat series.

I understand that any new game would not be as huge in content as SPWAW is. Even the first Steel Panthers game by SSI had just a couple of campaigns and i think less than fifty scenarios. It did have a random battle generator and a campaign generator though.

The sheer scope of the game is what have made it so unique. You have 27 nations to play with in SPWAW with their own OOB's and historicaly accurate units (hundreds of them). Many WW2 games are limited to just Germany vs. USA and often have just a couple of unit types available. Also in SPWAW we can play from 1930 to 1949 and cover all the theathres! The size of the battles can range from a couple of infantry squads to a hundred tanks and several companies of infantry.

Yet another key feature is the ability for users to easily create new maps, scenarios and even campaigns!
Rodwonder
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:05 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Rodwonder »

All of the above... Plus- Higher elevations, Larger maps, Battalion commanders, I'm a fan of small battles to ultra large battles, sometimes the bigger the better and more victory conditions such as exit and timed holding. Also a slightly larger graphical hex so you can see the units better when stacked.
Rod T DeMore
User avatar
rwenstrup
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by rwenstrup »

The Mega Campaigns have always been the best draw for me...developing a story line that gives a battle context and creates the struggle to maintain valuable assets...
It would be great to have a talented writer create the story line, and to increase the depth of the campaign experience.
With the advent of downloadable content, and the clearly successful efforts in developing more involved story lines (which games like Crusader Kings 2 have shown), a new level of player immersion has been enabled.
The Mega Campaigns are an avenue to put Steel Panthers into a lead product once again, and the downloadable content deliverable provides an ongoing source of revenue to enable cost effective product upgrading...and a source of considerable profit...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
GiveWarAchance
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:42 pm

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by GiveWarAchance »

Try to keep it much the same with updated resolution, sound and graphics to fit with modern computers easier. As for the game, I'd like to have more Long, Long Road to Victory and Korsun Pocket and Chosen Few type of campaigns which are fun and unpredictable.

And please include the ability to put units on AI control during battles (like the original game has) and maybe have dedicated support units which are always on AI control. I like the feeling of having 'teammates' even in solo play.

Please keep in resupply ability with trucks and ammo dumps. I think mortars and other arty should include both attrition and suppression rather than only suppression and some units like airborne and waffen SS should have shorter suppression because they more used to gunfire.

Biggest new thing I would like is urban combat using buildings. Before I think buildings add somewhat of a defensive bonus plus they limited visibility. I think urban combat is fun and should be a bigger part of the game. And maybe add in more with boats and ships.

And having multinational battlegroups would be cool like Germany and Italy working together in North Africa or US & Britain in Normandy.
sanch
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:55 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by sanch »

Volume control on the sound! I have to almost turn my speakers off when playing.

Good game - it will be nice if something new and improved actually comes out of this!
User avatar
DROregon
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Oregon
Contact:

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by DROregon »

…what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

1. Refinements in the combat calculations, including “Enhanced” & “Low Carnage”.
2. Campaigns: Computer Generator, User Defined, and Mega-Campaigns.

If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key
features and strengths?

1. Updated Platform
a. Windows 7 & higher
b. Screen resolution beyond 600x800
c. Retain top-down IGO-UGO
d. Retain the many nations (with open spots for new user defined)
e. Retain combat calculations
f. Retain Command & Control
g. Retain Preference-style ability to adjust playing options
h. Retain Scenario & Campaign generators
i. Retain open architecture for oob, maps, graphics, text, etc
j. Retain Encyclopedia
k. Retain PBEM
l. Allow weapon fire through smoke
m. Allow vehicle/tanks to backup
n. Allow larger oob files beyond 250 weapons & units and 200 formations
o. Allow multi-national opponents in large computer-generated scenarios
p. Improve AI to better use combined arms (don’t always lead with tanks)
q. Smart VHs (e.g. high ground overlooks, road junctions, bridges, cities/towns)

2. Editors
a. Retain/Enhance Scenario Editor
b. Retain/Enhance Campaign Editor
c. New oob Editor
d. New Map Editor
e. New Map Graphics Editor
f. New Unit Graphics Editor

3. Mega-Campaigns (sold separately)
a. As an optional purchase by gamers
b. As incremental revenue to developers

I think it would be great if Matrix delivered a new platform for SPWAW like CMANO did for Harpoon.

Image
sami heimola
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: kouvola finland

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by sami heimola »

Well at least these come into mind:

1."stronger" AI[:'(]
2.updated graphics(icons,terrains, maybe more elevations like in WinSPWW2)
3.wider maps (let's say 160 or 180x200 hex)
4.ability to load pre-made map in campaign game (as in WinSPWW2/MBT)
5.artillery fire bug fix[:'(] (no more press "shift" in artillery menu)



Riitaoja
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:45 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Riitaoja »

The die hard fans would ofcourse like to see everything that is in SPWAW now and nothing major changed.
However I think realisticaly we would not get an exact copy of SPWAW with just better graphics and some new features added.
We would get a completely new game with many things changed. However the basic Steel Panthers "feel" should still be there.
User avatar
Major_Mess
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:28 pm
Location: The True North. Strong and Free

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Major_Mess »

Erik, thanks again for this opportunity. Believe me, to many folks just this dialogue is a dream come true.
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
This is purely a hypothetical question, so please don't get overly excited.

Nope, you can't tell me what to do. At any moment now I might very well get extremely excited. [:D]




You had some Q's
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
If you look back to the original Steel Panthers and all the releases since, what do you consider the most significant and important improvements since the original?

* Game Editors. All of them.
* PBEM (and online play too)
* The willingness of the dev's and programmers to interact with, and listen to the people.
* The above mentioned acting upon many of the valid suggestions presented to them.
* A consistent, solid, knowledgeable community (thanks internet). I would like to add, one that is overall a very grown-up, mature and respectful bunch. Super easy to work with.
* Tools and Mods and other stuff that this community has continued to develop.


ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
If a new Steel Panthers were to come into being tomorrow, what do you feel should be its key features and strengths ...

A refinement of the combat routines. As most everyone states, the philosophy (and the math) driving the game engine for combat works pretty damn good. That part ain't really broken, no need to start from scratch IMHO.
Of course there still would/should be changes - all for the better of course [:)]
Starting fresh there can be way more granularity (is that the right word?) in all the various calculations.
Armor values/damage etc etc all expanded and dialled in.

* 2D Top Down. 50 meter hexes. Don't ever need to mess with that.
* More slots for everything. Keep those Grognards happy.
* Improved video resolution, it certainly doesn't need to be HD quality buts lets get in the 21st century at least with this.
* Better integration / improved functionality of all the editors. Learn from Chlanda's and ectizen's apps, see what they access and adjust, that's what we want. That's what we need!

Maps.
The canvas needs to be improved.

OK, first off. I know nuthin' from nuthin', so if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about it's because I don't.

There's dozens and dozens of PC games out there that have the geography as an important feature. Matrix has prolly got more than a few in their stable. Of course they do.
Can something a bit more realistic looking be borrowed / copied / ported over? Something?

Maps have got to be multi-level. Lots and lots of levels.
And larger, way larger.

Irregardless, Map editing should be easier for the end user. Expanded options / improved functionality. Palettes and graphics in way, way more accessible/editable formats. Or the proper tools provided for the job.
Allow the ability to easily add custom packages.

Hey! What would be completely fantastic would be the ability to import topo maps from one of the various services out there. Is that even possible?


Ideally, I kinda envision a system where a topographical map is generated with levels of, let's say 2 meters or so. The layers are created with no respect towards the hex-grid. I mean that there could be different levels (and terrain for that matter) in a single hex. From there all geographical attributes and graphical icons are easily added with the tools provided.



I could go on and on and on .....


HTH


cheers


Major Mess



Hexes.
I had a thought, In a brand new version, what if the hex-grid is not based on the map, but on the Unit. Does that make any sense. Is this a new and exciting idea, or old and something I've stolen?
Whatever, I digress.



Erik,

IMHO, if Matrix wishes to move forward at all with SPWaW, there's one thing that you guys could investigate that would showcase to all that Matrix is back in the game (SPWaW wise at least).

Look into increasing the video resolution of what we have right now. If that other mob could pull that off with even older code, I'm thinkin' that Matrix could also make that play. Like I typed above, I know nothing except that in the year 2015 it should be at least a possibility. I'm hopin'.

You get that done, and all by itself you've got SPWaW V9.0 for (I dunno) little effort.
Notice Served, Matrix is serious.


I think you'd be very surprised at who would come out of the woodwork if that was announced. I think the talent pool for the building of the next iteration would be amazing.


That's enough out of me for now.
Thanks again

MM


edited for clarity
Click below. You know you want to!!


Image
User avatar
KG Erwin
Posts: 8366
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Cross Lanes WV USA

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by KG Erwin »

The most significant improvement has been in the accuracy of the OOBs, an effort which was done by the Enhanced Team. The second-most significant improvement has been in the devising of the Low-Carnage combat settings (which I believe should be standardized as the default).

As for future improvements, certainly the AI could be made better, and units should have 5 or 6 options for weapons slots, rather than the current 4. This would certainly simplify the OOBs for several nations as they evolved during the war (notably the USMC).

And, of course, more Mega Campaigns!

One more thing, as a more distant future thought: an expansion of the time-frame to the present day, so we could recreate battles in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East.
Image
User avatar
Zap
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:13 am
Location: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Zap »

Not sure it has been mentioned. make it possible to select more than one unit at a time for movement.
Riitaoja
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:45 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Riitaoja »

Not sure it has been mentioned. make it possible to select more than one unit at a time for movement.
Yep larger battles with alot of movement tend to get a bit tedious when there was no option to select multiple units and issue them a move order together.
* 2D Top Down. 50 meter hexes. Don't ever need to mess with that.
I kinda agree with that but what if one hex would be 25 meters? Basic computer monitors have pretty high resolutions today and it is not that uncommon to have 20 inch or larger screens. So a 25 meter hex could be used instead of 50 meters. The units could be in a more realistic scale this way...

Going into eye candy it could be cool if the tanks had animated tracks and they could leave track marks on the ground when they move. More impressive death animations too with ammo cooking of and sparks flying everywhere when a tank gets a critical hit and explodes. Other hits could blow off a track with a graphical illustration when the tank tries to move and the cut off track is left in the gound. This type of detail would be possible to implement if the scale of the game graphics was more realistic.
User avatar
aussem1
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:49 am

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by aussem1 »

I have played SPWaW and most of the variants for many years and indeed I even played ASL (Advanced Squad Leader), what I consider to be Steel Panther's originator/inspiration. Truly loved these games and see them as one long extension of inspired tactical wargaming. :) My one big wish is to see any new game/variant made to run on Mac OS. I would be super pleased and impressed if we could just agree on one 'updated' standard (with low carnage as a must) and then port it to Mac. Happy to even pay for it all over again. Please, please, can we port it to Mac!!! ?
Fradar
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:15 am
Location: Frolois, France

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by Fradar »


Erik,
I e-mailed you my wish list. Concerning the mechanics of the game:
- Tunnels where men,vehicles, trains could move through. I made many scenarios with trains moving through tunnels but it requires a lot of cheating. This could also be used as subway, sewer system and allow troops to move unseen from one point to another. Junctions would be needed.
- Trains that move altogether as a train. In my train scenarios trains controlled by the AI can only move piecemeal.
- Tanks that can back up still facing the enemy.
- Towing immobilized vehicles to bring them to a safe place where they could repair more quickly. This should be facilitated with special repair units. When a MG would malfunction it could be replaced.
- Tanks should not fire backwards. itis a bit gamey.
- Onboard artillery and AT guns should not opfire when they are attacked on their flanks. It is impossible to turn a gun in such a short time.
Otherwise we need better graphics/SHP as detailed in my wish list.
François
User avatar
RockinHarry
Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by RockinHarry »

some wishes for upgraded or polished Steel Panthers:

Higher screen resolutions
Windows compatibility from XP onwards
Relative spotting system (no more borg spotting)
refined urban combat environments with multi story buildings incl. basements
wider range of terrain height levels
terrain height level independant water features (creeks, lakes..)
better map editor, that also allows building a map from an overlay of real maps
generally better and maybe customizable AI
more unit & weapon slots in OOB
refinements of the IGOYGO system. A WEGO would be interesting as well.




RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann
User avatar
JEB Davis
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:24 pm
Location: Michigan, U.T.B.

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by JEB Davis »

JEB Davis' Wishlist for new SP:WAW

I first stress that I LOVE the way the game plays currently!
It is hands-down the best computer game of my life.

Things NOT to change or remove:

- Keep top-down hex format
- Keep 50-meter hex scale with option for yards
- Keep turn-based
- Keep all the current options in Preferences Screen
- Keep Encyclopedia
- Keep the 1mm armor thickness increments
- Keep the lightning-fast game response to inputs
- No more Eye-Candy animation is needed, this would just slow the game
- Don't require fancy graphics cards to play it

Things to IMPROVE or FIX:

- Larger maps
- Add one more level of zoom-out
- Realistic scaling of graphics (no more 50-meter wide roads & houses and 25-meter tanks)
- Increase number of units & formations per battle (at least double them)
- More OOB slots
- A few more country slots, including one Allied & one Axis for "generic" units
- Increase the maximum Time Per Turn for Online/Timed Play Modes
- Fix the problems with Online Play
- Easier editing of maps, scenarios, campaigns, OOBs
- More map elevations
- A toggle option to provide rubber rafts, rather than how it is now
- MEGA campaigns fixed to not crash with C&C ON
- C&C should be ON by default
- Tweak the fall of OBA artillery shells for more randomness in more historically accurate radius
- Smoke as a reduction in visibility, not a wall
- Control over amount of smoke grenades for infantry in OOBs
- AI
- Higher screen resolution support
- When purchasing company formations, the ability to substitute platoons and maintain command structure
- Limit number of smoke shells fired per turn just as AP/HE is now
- Limit infantry to one smoke use per turn, with no movement in that turn allowed
- Ability to save game part way through deployment in PBEM mode
- Fix bug: Vehicle breaks down while moving and passengers unload then get their full movement
- Tweak the unit purchase cost thresholds to finer gradations, i.e., no 25% jump at 70 EXP level
- Longer artillery call delay for offboard batteries and on-board artillery
- No nation (e.g. US Army) should get a 0.1 artillery delay
- Dramatically increase chance for tanks to be immobilized when running through buildings
- Fix movement paths so vehicles don't plunge through hedges/bocage so easily
- Fix bug: When units enter rubber rafts, their objective hex changes to 0,0 which prevents movement toward the right map edge
- Shell crater graphics that get progressively worse rather than cycle

Cool NEW features:

- Op-Fire filtering, something simple like: a) only armor targets, b) only infantry targets, c) only soft targets, d) etc.
- Customizable ammo supply units for different categories of ammo: small arms / mortar / artillery / tank
- Allow repair of disabled/jammed weapons like we have for fixing immobililty now
- Reverse movement for vehicles, but this must be done with realistic limits especially for tanks
- Field-of-traverse limitations for towed weapons, pivoting entire weapon takes time
- Field-of-fire limitations for non-turreted vehicles (a.k.a. the "spinning StuG" phenomena)
- Loading/Unloading units should use part/all of their movement allowances
- Towing of disabled vehicles using recovery vehicles or other capable vehicles (tanks towed other tanks in the war)
- Limited intel of distant spotted units, rather than current full identification
- Realism Preferences selectable separately for each Nation involved
- New terrain type: Dense Forest that is impassable to vehicles
Reduce SP:WaW slaughter, "Low Carnage":
Settings: 80Spot,80Hit,100R/R,XXXTQ,110TkT,150InfT,180AvSoft,130AvArm,150SOFire / Command & Ctrl ON / AutoRally OFF
Enhanced http://enhanced.freeforums.org
Depot https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/spwawdepot/
User avatar
RockinHarry
Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers?

Post by RockinHarry »

Many excellent suggestions from other posters here, particularly from Major Mess and DROregon, that I might add to mine as well! [8D]

Can´t quite remember all the features added since SP 1, but since the further development of SP 3 to SPWAW to latest V 8.03, I very much welcomed everything enhancing realism, as well as adding more terrain types and off course Mega Campaigns. Hard to tell what all would make me exited about a new SP, but as long as Gary Grigsby is at it himself, I know it would become another masterpiece! [&o] Though quite remember my excitement, when SP 1 came out, after years of playing Kampfgruppe, Panzer Strike and Typhon of Steel! [:D]
RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann
Post Reply

Return to “Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns”