Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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PaulWRoberts
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Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by PaulWRoberts »

A question comparing WITW to WITE:

One thing we see in WITW is a Combat Delay cost in MP for hexes that have seen fighting during the turn. This limits the unrealistic exploitation effect of having one unit spend all its Movement Points clearing a hex so a fresh unit can use all of its movement points to pass through and go way beyond.

I've been away from WITE for many patch cycles. Was anything similar ever added to WITE?
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von altair
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by von altair »

Don't you think, that it is way more easier to move through an cleared enemy front?
Than for example trying to move through it while its manned by a whole enemy mech division?

Lets assume 4 German infantry divisions makes breakthrough in an enemy front (this happened a lot
than infantry did this for panzers) while Panzer division rests, eats meal and drinks coffee.
Then Radio message comes and says, we have a breakthrough! Move ahead! Why should that Panzer
division suffer penalty?

There are other more severe problems in wite (air war).
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PaulWRoberts
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by PaulWRoberts »

Let's say the infantry division spends all of its movement points clearing a hex. This represents about a week's worth of combat effort. We can say the hex was finally cleared of enemies on Friday or Saturday.

If I then pick a completely fresh panzer division and send it careening through the cleared space and way beyond, it's using its own whole week's worth of effort as if the space were already clear on Monday.

I know WITE doesn't model things on a day-by-basis, but it seems to me that a combat MP penalty in the hex helps mitigate this kind of gamey and unrealistic exploitation.
darbycmcd
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by darbycmcd »

Paul, you are absolutely correct. It is difficult for many gamers to understand that MP really have a relationship to time. It would definitely improve the system to impose something like what you are talking about, I would actually like to see a cost to enter a 'combat' hex equal to the proportion of MP used by the attacking unit to clear the hex. What I mean is, if an infantry unit uses 80% of its MP to force the defender out, then that represents 80% of the turn, and any unit that wants to transit the hex must lose 80% of its MP to account for the wait. The system we have now is not a good representation, and it is one of the features that highlight the problem with IGO-UGO games. But Grigsby is an old-school gamer at heart, his computer games are complex board games and some of the old school stuff is still there (like hexes or finite turns).
PaulWRoberts
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by PaulWRoberts »

Well, since a MP delay for combat hexes is now standard in WITW, I imagine we'll see it in WITE2. I was just wondering if perhaps something similar had already arrived in one of the patches (which really do seem to have added a lot to WITE).
timmyab
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by timmyab »

It needs to be done, but it'll be wite 2 before we see it I guess. It would change the balance of the game dramatically.
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heliodorus04
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by heliodorus04 »

Another reason not to buy War in the West, I guess.

In week-long turns in an I-go-U-go system, many abstractions over time and space need to be implemented.
War in the East does a fine job of this.
There is enough black-box bullcrap in the combat engine. I don't need this game to overcomplicate movement any further than the fact that I never know exactly how many MPs I'm going to get in a turn and the penalty for movement incurred by morale of units.
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PaulWRoberts
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by PaulWRoberts »

The Combat Delay cost is displayed on the map.
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morvael
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RE: Combat Delay MP cost in Hex?

Post by morvael »

I think we discussed this option on dev forum. It is doable, but it was feared it would change the game too much and we don't have resources to rebalance scenarios.

I totally agree WitE is a mix of most basic hex and counter paper wargames mechanics in some aspects with some of the most detailed mechanics available in PC wargames in the others. Also, the scale chosen (weekly turns) exacerbates the issues stemming from IGOYOUGO mechanics (too long time to act/move without reaction).
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