naval bombardment.

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Yaab
Posts: 4583
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:09 pm
Location: Poland

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by Yaab »

Actually, I wonder if a die roll is the only factor for successful ship engagement. Bataan guns engage enemy ships quite regularly, and if one examines Bataan's TOE, the unit has surface radars. There are just a few Allied CD units that actually start the game equipped with surface radars.
chuckj118
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:08 am
Location: SC, USA

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by chuckj118 »

Engagement of ships by land units have so many variables in the real world (esp. back in the 1940's) that a WIDE range of outcomes are to be expected. In WitP I have sailed by major CD units and had NOTHING happen. On other occasions, such as a landing, I have been plastered. As a 40+ year reader of naval history I think this is fairly valid. Generally, ships were pretty safe from land guns as long as they could get it over quick and keeping moving.

I fail to understand why the original writer thinks that having CD guns present will protect airfields and other installations. Any soft targets such as aircraft are going to be massively damaged if they are getting fired at by a large number of naval guns. History bares this out at Guadalcanal and other places.
MDDgames
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:52 am

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by MDDgames »

ORIGINAL: Nalamin

Engagement of ships by land units have so many variables in the real world (esp. back in the 1940's) that a WIDE range of outcomes are to be expected. In WitP I have sailed by major CD units and had NOTHING happen. On other occasions, such as a landing, I have been plastered. As a 40+ year reader of naval history I think this is fairly valid. Generally, ships were pretty safe from land guns as long as they could get it over quick and keeping moving.

I fail to understand why the original writer thinks that having CD guns present will protect airfields and other installations. Any soft targets such as aircraft are going to be massively damaged if they are getting fired at by a large number of naval guns. History bares this out at Guadalcanal and other places.

Apparently, you failed to READ the original writer. The point is not that they didnt protect anything. The point is they didnt even fire. They will NEVER fire unless an actual landing is happening. And it was designed that way. And again, ANY historical reasoning for this from ANY nation on ANY front has yet to be submitted. Its just a poor design, that needs correction.

You, like pretty much everyone else here makes me laugh my ass off. Seriously. On one hand you laugh at the movie "Pearl Harbor" because of its historical inaccuracies, and yet Jap shore guns not returning fire at bombarding ships is just peachy to you.

LMFAO at all of you. Seriously. Especially those that designed it to "work" this way. And even more so because not only do you think you can cyber bully me, that I will be the least bit intimidated by it, but thinking that you can change my opinion. My opinion (backed up by historical precedence) isnt going to change any more so than those of you cuddling up to those that poorly designed it are likely to change your tune. Im not trying to change YOUR tune. I dont CARE what your opinion is, any more than YOU care what MY opinion is.

And again, it doesnt matter what I think. It doesnt matter what YOU think, it doesnt matter what the AFBs that designed it think. It ONLY matters what Michael thinks. And from what I have seen of his changes to the game thus far, he tends to do right by history. And I certainly hope this badly needed change is no exception.

If you can make a historical argument to back up the way it is designed, by all means, please do so. I welcome it. If all you are going to do is to continue to violate the user agreement on this site by attacking me on a personal level, please continue to do that also. Again, I dont CARE what YOUR opinion is on this. If you cant engage in a historical discussion on the subject, then I dont care what you have to say.

History is on MY side. Hard to admit you are wrong isnt it?
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Yaab
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RE: naval bombardment.

Post by Yaab »

MDD, if you ask about shore (CD) guns engaging TF bombarding a given base, they should fire provided the TF is in the range of the CD guns.

If you ask about field artillery units engaging passing ships, I think it is unlikely they ever fire. Field artillery units don't park their guns on the shore (one hex is 45 miles wide) - the guns can be anywhere in the hex. It takes a TF 4 hours to pass a hex ( one phase in game is 12 hours, TF moves with speed of 3 hexes per phase). Is the arty unit on a 24hr duty to always engage a moving target? What if the TF passes the straits during nighttime? Your unit can have their IJA squads dug at the beaches while the arty is dug to the rear, just like the 352th Div at the Omaha beach.

Now, if you ask about field artillery unit engaging a TF that bombards the base at 0 range, then
you could argue that at least some field guns should engage such ships from time to time to deter careless bombings at 0-3 range.

You played well by having moved the HK unit to Merak, but the unit is just a field artillery unit. It has no CD guns and no surface radar. Switch to the Allied side, go to Calcutta and find the "CD" unit there. The unit is just a fortress unit wth no CD guns - that will deter the Japs from landing there for sure. Labels can be misleading at times if you do not look at TOEs of units. Some Naval HQ have no naval support but have aviation support in their TOE.

BTW, Merak is a great place to park subs, midget subs, PT boats and a tons of mines. I don't think the Japanese have any mobile CD unit to put there. Field arty and base forces cover the whole hex with their field and DP guns, just like base AA value is divided by 6 to simulate its dispersal in the hex.
JocMeister
Posts: 8258
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Sweden

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by JocMeister »

Yaab,

Don´t bother. He isn´t interested in listening. He just wanted out of a game where he was losing and made up an "issue" instead of manning up and admitting defeat.

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Lecivius
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:53 am
Location: Denver

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by Lecivius »

Another Green Button Candidate.

Still, it's one of the best forum features [;)]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Miller
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:14 am
Location: Ashington, England.

RE: naval bombardment.

Post by Miller »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yaab,

Don´t bother. He isn´t interested in listening. He just wanted out of a game where he was losing and made up an "issue" instead of manning up and admitting defeat.


He was far from defeated, but the tide was beginning to turn. Could have been an epic game, such a waste over nothing.
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