How does the cashflow system works?

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Novaliz
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How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Novaliz »

Is there a thread which explains how the cashflow system works? I do all the taxes by my own:

I really want to know when i get my money credited. I thought it will be every year but it doesnt. And in my last game I noticed that my money is growing though I had a negative cashflow and not enough trade income to compensate it? Its hard to plan and to understand how the income system works. Without knowing is hard to play the game. I was searching in the forum for some helpful threads but I coudnt find some.



zenkmander
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by zenkmander »

From what I've seen, misc income is burst/instant while tax income is at a set interval (week, month, not sure). I think the income report is also generated at a set interval (ie you might get 20k spaceport income on Jan 1, 2k on Jan 2, 0k on Jan 6, and your income report for that week will show 22k).

So I believe that you get spaceport income the instant the private sector buys a ship, and you get trade income the instant a trader docks.

As you can imagine this is probably very difficult to track accurately. Who knows when the private sector will decide to buy a bunch of ships? You can sort of predict it though: If you colonize a new world or finish building a bunch of mining stations, you can assume that the private sector will purchase more ships in order to integrate those things into your economy.

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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

I think it comes every 19 days.

There are other sources of income, and there's no real way to know what is happening and how and when they will come. A big weakness of the economic system of Distant Worlds.
buncheesy
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by buncheesy »

Unlike a game like Civ IV where you can micromanage every single hammer/beaker/coin DW resists this because of the economic system. I think you have to manage by feel to some extent

ie up taxes and let it settle and see
dont built to many bases
don't expand to fast
keep a moderate fleet
design for maintenance costs
don't recruit to many soldier
target rare resources, empire wide bonuses, wonders
etc

Short Answer: I have no idea how the economic system works!
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Plant
There are other sources of income, and there's no real way to know what is happening and how and when they will come. A big weakness of the economic system of Distant Worlds.
While some mechanics could be better explained personally I see this as a strength. Real world economies have an unpredictable element ... as does Distant Worlds. The game requires to have strategies that are robust to a degree of uncertainty.
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Novaliz
And in my last game I noticed that my money is growing though I had a negative cashflow and not enough trade income to compensate it? Its hard to plan and to understand how the income system works. Without knowing is hard to play the game. I was searching in the forum for some helpful threads but I coudnt find some.
Focus on what you can control. You can control the state and only influence private. So focus on why you have a negative cashflow. Trade income you can encourage in various ways such as building mining bases, but be careful planning to spend unpredictable income.
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

Real world economies are unpredictable, but in the real world, tax systems are predictable. Real world governments of well run countries are able to predict the income they recieve every year to a stunning degree of accuracy, to the extent they can run budgets a few years ahead of time. In the real world, governments plan and understand their own income systems.

Distant worlds? You only know at the end of the year, whether you have gained or lost money over the course of that year. You don't even know when you receive or lose that money, it just seems to occur over time.
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

Real world tax systems are linked to the economy and economic assumptions and therefore have an unpredictable element. Consider the impact the GFC had on tax revenue for example. That said, I agree they are reasonably predictable, but there is a moving target even in relatively stable years that all governments need to manage.

The colony income tax system in Distant Worlds is also a reasonably predictable function of population and development. If I know the income of the previous year, I can consider population growth and likely development changes (which granted have an unpredictable component) to estimate future income years ahead of time in order to plan. This is particularly trivial in the early game when the Distant Worlds economy is dominated by your home world.

Trade income in Distant Worlds yes I would agree it's difficult to predict. Managing this is simple, expect it to be unpredictable, so don't spend it until those funds are actually received. That said, trade income can be influenced in various ways.
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

Not sure what GFC is.

True, if you know the income of the previous year, you can predict the stable part of future income.
However, you cannot predict space port income nor trade bonuses, or resort income, simply because there is no previous year table, which ironically priates have, even though pirates have the biggest variances in income, though it probably exists otherwise players wouldn't know if they are gaining or losing revenue.

I guess you can predict space port income if you exploit the private sector though.

But mainly I say the economic is not understandable as a system as a whole, is as the opening poster said, we simply don't know when money is credited. It changes every day, but what is that money? Does it include the tax income for every day? Possibly.

What exactly is trade bonuses? What is the fee? What controls how much you recieve? Are fuel costs offsetted but the exact same amount of money gained from trading it?

Also confusion is that small colonies can lose you money, but this is added to the Tax revenue, but not actively displayed on the Colonies Screen.

Also that in general the economic system defies all logic. The population are the most entrepeneural peoples that exists, they don't consume money, but store and invest.
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Plant

Not sure what GFC is.

True, if you know the income of the previous year, you can predict the stable part of future income.
However, you cannot predict space port income nor trade bonuses, or resort income, simply because there is no previous year table, which ironically priates have, even though pirates have the biggest variances in income, though it probably exists otherwise players wouldn't know if they are gaining or losing revenue.

I guess you can predict space port income if you exploit the private sector though.

But mainly I say the economic is not understandable as a system as a whole, is as the opening poster said, we simply don't know when money is credited. It changes every day, but what is that money? Does it include the tax income for every day? Possibly.

What exactly is trade bonuses? What is the fee? What controls how much you recieve? Are fuel costs offsetted but the exact same amount of money gained from trading it?

Also confusion is that small colonies can lose you money, but this is added to the Tax revenue, but not actively displayed on the Colonies Screen.

Also that in general the economic system defies all logic. The population are the most entrepeneural peoples that exists, they don't consume money, but store and invest.
ORIGINAL: Plant
Real world economies are unpredictable, but in the real world, tax systems are predictable.

In the real world tax revenue can be significantly effected by economic assumptions. I mentioned the GFC (Global Financial Crisis) as an example of this but variations exist in normal years. Tax revenue in the real world is somewhat predictable but not entirely predictable.

Similarly Distant Worlds income is somewhat predictable but not entirely predictable. Colony income is very predictable and is a very significant component of your income. Resort base income is very predictable i.e. it's always immaterial. I agree trade income is more difficult to predict, as it should be.

What is important to the OP is whether the economic system is understandable enough to be able to plan ahead. The details are not necessarily that important. I don't care exactly what is credited when, I just want to know enough that I can plan ahead for expansion while remaining in the black. I don't care what trade fees are exactly, I just want to do whatever I can to maximise trade income e.g. build mining bases focused on in demand and high price resources.

Do I want more information on game mechanics? Absolutely ... but I won't be loosing any sleep on this particular mechanic.

Distant Worlds provides more than enough information to be able to plan ahead. The way I play is to be as aggressive with expansion as I can, so being able to plan ahead is critical ... and it's never a problem. The main difference with the real world is that Distant Worlds doesn't spoon feed forward estimates (e.g. like treasury estimates). It requires some experience with the game ... which in my view is a very, very good thing.
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

It is true that colony income is predictable, but it is not clear when you have low population colonies. Resort base income isn't predictable as it is currently buggy. Space port and Trade income trickles in over time and the amount displayed is the amount starting from the beginning of each new year. This is not particularily clear. Is it predictable? Ultimately since Space port and trade income form a large amount of yearly income combined with the lack of record keeping from the game, the income is undeniably unpredictable.

As for whether it is desirable to have opaque or clear economic mechanics, is an entirely different matter altogether.

To answer the OP question, I think Space port and Trade income is daily. Colony income is unknown, but possibly either daily or monthly or somewhere in between.


PS GFC as an acronym for Global Financial Crisis? Oh really? It has never been refered to as GFC. Don't make up acronyms please.
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Plant
It is true that colony income is predictable, but it is not clear when you have low population colonies.
Low population colony income is not material to your overall income and hence has no relevance to forward planning.
ORIGINAL: Plant
Resort base income isn't predictable as it is currently buggy.
Agree, but again it has no relevance to forward planning, as it's not material to your overall income.
ORIGINAL: Plant
Ultimately since Space port and trade income form a large amount of yearly income combined with the lack of record keeping from the game, the income is undeniably unpredictable.
I partly agree. It is possible to roughly estimate but there is a high degree of uncertainty on timing and amount. Again, real world income is not entirely predictable either, so I consider this a good thing. You have to adapt and employ a strategy to manage that uncertainty. I am quite happy that it makes people who cannot handle uncertainty squirm.
ORIGINAL: Plant
PS GFC as an acronym for Global Financial Crisis? Oh really? It has never been refered to as GFC. Don't make up acronyms please.
LOL...top of the list!

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Jeeves
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Jeeves »

Since I stopped coming online daily, I'm a bit late responding. Maintenance payment and civilian ship purchases occur every 4th economic cycle of 19 days. If you have not colonized anything in the past cycle, then no new purchases will occur, but maintenance will certainly be charged. I'm not certain, but I think taxes paid to the empire also come every 4th 19 day cycle, on the 19 day cycle before the empire is charged maintenance. So keep a cushion of a fourth of a year's cash flow and don't buy dozens of warships when you collect taxes, but after the civilians buy their freighters and you pay maintenance. In my current game in year 13, I'm colonizing about 50 planets per year, so the civilians choke my build queue with ships when they finally buy them. My solution is to keep a half year's tax revenue until I collect taxes, then spend the excess money on warships. A couple few weeks later the civilians buy THEIR ships, and the spaceport is backlogged until just about time to buy warships again...

Lonnie Courtney Clay
p.s. Bakuras shipyards on my homeworld and a governor with 75% bonus for ship construction speed really cranks out the ships!
Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
Ultimately since Space port and trade income form a large amount of yearly income combined with the lack of record keeping from the game, the income is undeniably unpredictable.
I partly agree. It is possible to roughly estimate but there is a high degree of uncertainty on timing and amount. Again, real world income is not entirely predictable either, so I consider this a good thing. You have to adapt and employ a strategy to manage that uncertainty. I am quite happy that it makes people who cannot handle uncertainty squirm.

So you agree with me, only not on whether it is desirable or not to have opaque economic mechanics.
ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
PS GFC as an acronym for Global Financial Crisis? Oh really? It has never been refered to as GFC. Don't make up acronyms please.
LOL...top of the list!
On top of the list! In a wiki! Like it has been edited yesterday! With no references! And the top 10 google seraches yields no reference to this GFC, nor in any newspapers, precisely because you made it up just now. Why would you use an acronym that is not in common usage in the field it would had been used in?


[/quote]
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Plant
So you agree with me, only not on whether it is desirable or not to have opaque economic mechanics.
You have stated that real worlds tax systems are predictable, which is only partly correct, there is an (sometimes quite significant) unpredictable element.

You have also stated Distant Worlds is unpredictable, which is again only partly correct, there is a (significant) predictable element.

In short, my view is that Distant Worlds and the real world have more similarities than differences. While you seem to think they are opposites.
ORIGINAL: Icemania
LOL...top of the list!
ORIGINAL: Plant
On top of the list! In a wiki! Like it has been edited yesterday! With no references! And the top 10 google seraches yields no reference to this GFC, nor in any newspapers, precisely because you made it up just now. Why would you use an acronym that is not in common usage in the field it would had been used in?
Choosing not to define a widely used acronym is a great way to reveal the other parties level of understanding.

One of many ...

GFC Explained
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

Where did I say that Distant worlds and the real world has more differences than similarities?

But you say things like the idea of an unclear economic system making people such as the OP squirm. Huh.
Not exactly helpful.

As for your acronym, you talk of level of understanding, yet it reveals more of your mindset and motives, that you would use an acronym not in common usage in the very field it would be used in, never mind in a game forum where even in context, it it has to be asked.
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Icemania
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Plant

Where did I say that Distant worlds and the real world has more differences than similarities?

But you say things like the idea of an unclear economic system making people such as the OP squirm. Huh.
Not exactly helpful.

As for your acronym, you talk of level of understanding, yet it reveals more of your mindset and motives, that you would use an acronym not in common usage in the very field it would be used in, never mind in a game forum where even in context, it it has to be asked.
Please reread your previous posts. You've clearly said you consider real world tax income to be predictable and contrasted that to DW. I've already quoted you and made the flaws in your logic clear. Again, both have predictable and unpredictable elements, and I applaud the developers for this, while you criticise.

As for the acronym, the YouTube video linked previously says it all if you still think the term GFC is uncommon when talking economics. [X(]

Good day.
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elanaagain
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by elanaagain »

ORIGINAL: Plant
ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
Ultimately since Space port and trade income form a large amount of yearly income combined with the lack of record keeping from the game, the income is undeniably unpredictable.
I partly agree. It is possible to roughly estimate but there is a high degree of uncertainty on timing and amount. Again, real world income is not entirely predictable either, so I consider this a good thing. You have to adapt and employ a strategy to manage that uncertainty. I am quite happy that it makes people who cannot handle uncertainty squirm.

So you agree with me, only not on whether it is desirable or not to have opaque economic mechanics.
ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
PS GFC as an acronym for Global Financial Crisis? Oh really? It has never been refered to as GFC. Don't make up acronyms please.
LOL...top of the list!
On top of the list! In a wiki! Like it has been edited yesterday! With no references! And the top 10 google seraches yields no reference to this GFC, nor in any newspapers, precisely because you made it up just now. Why would you use an acronym that is not in common usage in the field it would had been used in?


[/quote]
we are discussing a confusing and OPAQUE economic system are we not? Irony train inbound...
USA = Corporatist Serfdom of America: free range surf technology
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Darkspire
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Darkspire »

ORIGINAL: Plant
ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
Ultimately since Space port and trade income form a large amount of yearly income combined with the lack of record keeping from the game, the income is undeniably unpredictable.
I partly agree. It is possible to roughly estimate but there is a high degree of uncertainty on timing and amount. Again, real world income is not entirely predictable either, so I consider this a good thing. You have to adapt and employ a strategy to manage that uncertainty. I am quite happy that it makes people who cannot handle uncertainty squirm.

So you agree with me, only not on whether it is desirable or not to have opaque economic mechanics.
ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: Plant
PS GFC as an acronym for Global Financial Crisis? Oh really? It has never been refered to as GFC. Don't make up acronyms please.
LOL...top of the list!
On top of the list! In a wiki! Like it has been edited yesterday! With no references! And the top 10 google seraches yields no reference to this GFC, nor in any newspapers, precisely because you made it up just now. Why would you use an acronym that is not in common usage in the field it would had been used in?


[/quote]

Maybe they have a different version of Google on your planet Plant, this was the second entry on the search for GFC, on Google, have a look at the fourth item in that list, the one that reads 'Global financial crisis', thought I best point it out a tad more clearly as you seem to be having problems seeing things.

Darkspire
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Plant
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RE: How does the cashflow system works?

Post by Plant »

Yes I must have a different google from you, what I got were football clubs from places beginning with G. I don't even watch football.

Nice link Darkspire, did you even bother to look at the page you linked?

It's wikipedia, listing other possible acronyms for gfc, just like...another wiki called free online dictionary. A list of many acronyms, each as obscure as the rest. And when you click on that relevent link inside your link, there is not one reference to gfc to mean global financial crises. Your link doesn't even support you.

Yet when I search for gfc in you tube what I obtained is infact some obscure wrestling club.

Honest.

Edit: Icemania, you said my logic is flawed. Go ahead and place two quotes where there is a contradiction, as opposed to claiming it so.
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