A test of wills

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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wodin
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RE: A test of wills

Post by wodin »

ORIGINAL: TheWombat



This idea that unless a wargame focuses on WWII, or at least gives WWII equal time, it isn't worthy or isn't viable or something seems rather odd. It's even odder that some folks seem to take this lack of focus on WWII as a personal affront....

Who says that? The fact is the money and sales are with WW2..that wouldn't be disputed by Slitherine or any developer. No one is taking affront that this is a modern game..what I take affront to is people telling the developers NOT to do a WW2 game. I have no interest in many modern conflicts but I wouldn't tell the developers with a "Please don't do blah blah blah" as I know other wargamers do want to see wargames cover blah blah blah theater\war.

The only reason those who want to see a WW2 version at SOME point are speaking out is because of the posts by players who are telling the Dev's not to do a WW2 game. The wargamers who want to see a WW2 version haven't implied other wars wouldn't be as good or the Dev;s should do a WW2 version right this minute or anything like that. Your pointing the finger at the wrong people here.
gexmex
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RE: A test of wills

Post by gexmex »

Why stop at WWII/III? Could this not be easily adapted to simulate some of the great Roman campaigns of antiquity? I should think legionnaires would count as dismounted infantry, obviously. Substitute some chariots for BTRs or something. You could have some ballista and scorpion batteries dueling it out over the grunts' heads. Or you could do some kind of time travel thing. Who wouldn't want to mount some Hellfires on a war elephant? [8D]
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wodin
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RE: A test of wills

Post by wodin »

Aaarrgghh..no one is saying stop at WW2..just can we also aswell as the other Post WW2 versions or even pre WW2 at some point have a WW2 version.

I do know they designed the game around WW2 onwards warfare..so not sure how much would need to be chnaged for ancients..I imagine alot of work with regards to how they fight and formations and leaders would def need to be in game to influence the battles. Still I'm happy to see this engine branch out anywhere;)
ORIGINAL: gexmex

Why stop at WWII? Could this not be easily adapted to simulate some of the great Roman campaigns of antiquity? I should think legionnaires would count as dismounted infantry, obviously. Substitute some chariots for BTRs or something. You could have some ballista and scorpion batteries dueling it out over the grunts' heads. Or you could do some kind of time travel thing. Would wouldn't want to mount some Hellfires on a war elephant? [8D]
TheWombat_matrixforum
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RE: A test of wills

Post by TheWombat_matrixforum »

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: TheWombat



This idea that unless a wargame focuses on WWII, or at least gives WWII equal time, it isn't worthy or isn't viable or something seems rather odd. It's even odder that some folks seem to take this lack of focus on WWII as a personal affront....

Who says that? The fact is the money and sales are with WW2..that wouldn't be disputed by Slitherine or any developer. No one is taking affront that this is a modern game..what I take affront to is people telling the developers NOT to do a WW2 game. I have no interest in many modern conflicts but I wouldn't tell the developers with a "Please don't do blah blah blah" as I know other wargamers do want to see wargames cover blah blah blah theater\war.

The only reason those who want to see a WW2 version at SOME point are speaking out is because of the posts by players who are telling the Dev's not to do a WW2 game. The wargamers who want to see a WW2 version haven't implied other wars wouldn't be as good or the Dev;s should do a WW2 version right this minute or anything like that. Your pointing the finger at the wrong people here.


Other posters have definitely acted as if they are affronted, at least, that's how I read it. And, you also have to consider that there are limits to what can be done. If you do A, you can't always do B. Limited resources, limited personnel, limited time. So, yeah, if it's a zero-sum game, it's perfectly fine to say "don't do A because I want you to do B." You're assuming they can do A and B. I'm hoping they can do A and B. They might not be able to do A and B. In that case, I want A, which necessarily precludes B. That's not an unreasonable approach.

And yes, I do feel there is sense of entitlement that many fans of WWII games seem to have. There are vastly more WWII gamers it seems than any other types, and sometimes I think this disparity breeds a sort of arrogance that equates all military simulation games with WWII games by default. That's how it comes across often, at least.

But this whole conversation is kind of silly, as it's been said that a variety of theaters and eras is under consideration, including WWII. So everyone should be happy eventually.
gexmex
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RE: A test of wills

Post by gexmex »

ORIGINAL: wodin

Aaarrgghh..no one is saying stop at WW2..just can we also aswell as the other Post WW2 versions or even pre WW2 at some point have a WW2 version.

I do know they designed the game around WW2 onwards warfare..so not sure how much would need to be chnaged for ancients..I imagine alot of work with regards to how they fight and formations and leaders would def need to be in game to influence the battles. Still I'm happy to see this engine branch out anywhere;)
ORIGINAL: gexmex

Why stop at WWII? Could this not be easily adapted to simulate some of the great Roman campaigns of antiquity? I should think legionnaires would count as dismounted infantry, obviously. Substitute some chariots for BTRs or something. You could have some ballista and scorpion batteries dueling it out over the grunts' heads. Or you could do some kind of time travel thing. Would wouldn't want to mount some Hellfires on a war elephant? [8D]


I'm sorry wodin, I was only trying to be silly and not really wade into the debate. [:(] twas a poor attempt at humor in a serious discussion.

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Mad Russian
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RE: A test of wills

Post by Mad Russian »

I'm moving the discussion of where the series is going to it's own thread.

Thanks for playing.

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Good Hunting.

MR
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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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76mm
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RE: A test of wills

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: TheWombat
Other posters have definitely acted as if they are affronted, at least, that's how I read it.
hmmm, since only Wodin and I have posted on this issue, and you're not talking about Wodin...for the record I guess I am more amused/confused than affronted when people say that the devs should not, must not bring this engine to WWII because there is already WitE, or Panzer General, or [insert other completely different game of your choice].
ORIGINAL: TheWombat
And, you also have to consider that there are limits to what can be done. If you do A, you can't always do B. Limited resources, limited personnel, limited time. So, yeah, if it's a zero-sum game, it's perfectly fine to say "don't do A because I want you to do B." You're assuming they can do A and B. I'm hoping they can do A and B. They might not be able to do A and B. In that case, I want A, which necessarily precludes B. That's not an unreasonable approach.
dunno, I'm not sure that any approach which assumes fixed resources and therefore a zero-sum game is very reasonable--a successful game (especially one with a robust scenario editor, etc.) should soon attract more resources, be it more money, more programmers, more modders, more scenario designers, more map designers, or whatever. That doesn't mean that the devs will be able to do everything overnight but they should be able to do more than they are doing now.
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wodin
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RE: A test of wills

Post by wodin »

No worries mate;)
I'm a n#bhead more often than not at times..
@Wombat..I think as I said we are only affronted because of posts telling the Dev's not to do WW2..thats it really.

Anyway as mentioned it is silly..I just got abit wound up over it like someone was pi##ing all over my cornflakes;)

ORIGINAL: gexmex

ORIGINAL: wodin

Aaarrgghh..no one is saying stop at WW2..just can we also aswell as the other Post WW2 versions or even pre WW2 at some point have a WW2 version.

I do know they designed the game around WW2 onwards warfare..so not sure how much would need to be chnaged for ancients..I imagine alot of work with regards to how they fight and formations and leaders would def need to be in game to influence the battles. Still I'm happy to see this engine branch out anywhere;)
ORIGINAL: gexmex

Why stop at WWII? Could this not be easily adapted to simulate some of the great Roman campaigns of antiquity? I should think legionnaires would count as dismounted infantry, obviously. Substitute some chariots for BTRs or something. You could have some ballista and scorpion batteries dueling it out over the grunts' heads. Or you could do some kind of time travel thing. Would wouldn't want to mount some Hellfires on a war elephant? [8D]


I'm sorry wodin, I was only trying to be silly and not really wade into the debate. [:(] twas a poor attempt at humor in a serious discussion.

I am , I know.
mikeCK
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RE: A test of wills

Post by mikeCK »

Edit: deleted.
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Mad Russian
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RE: A test of wills

Post by Mad Russian »

Hell is fine now.

Unless of course you're talking about Hell's Crossroads! If you are that's a different issue all together. The best I can do for you there is wish you good luck and...

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
TheWombat_matrixforum
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RE: A test of wills

Post by TheWombat_matrixforum »

ORIGINAL: wodin

No worries mate;)
I'm a n#bhead more often than not at times..
@Wombat..I think as I said we are only affronted because of posts telling the Dev's not to do WW2..thats it really.

Anyway as mentioned it is silly..I just got abit wound up over it like someone was pi##ing all over my cornflakes;)


Yeah, I think we can all enjoy the game and whatever comes after...whatever the theater or era.
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seydlitz_slith
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RE: A test of wills

Post by seydlitz_slith »

1. Arab-Israeli Wars....67, 73, 56
2. Gulf War I (Desert Storm '91)
3. Iraq-Iran conflict in the eighties
4. Indo-Pakistan
 
This engine would be fantastic for these conflicts.
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