3 FJ Division

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

Moderators: Panther Paul, Arjuna

Post Reply
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

Does anyone know more about the 3rd FJ Division?
I know that only the 9th Regiment show up in the Elsenborn scenario, and there is a lost Bn in the Loshiem Gap scenario, but I would like to know what happened to the other regiments.

This I what I have found out so far.


Image
Attachments
3-FJ-Div.jpg
3-FJ-Div.jpg (751.14 KiB) Viewed 52 times
User avatar
joeyeti
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:45 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by joeyeti »

No info on FJ 3rd...

BUT, is that the insignia image from Wikipedia?
Cause I made that one! [8D]
Joe
tukker
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:11 am
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by tukker »

I have a book called 'The battle of the Bulge- Operations of the 3rd Fallschirmjäger Division' by Hans J. Wijers. There's no info in it on the period Dec 16- 19, but from Dec. 19 3rd Fallschirmjäger Division attacked in the area Weywertz-Maimes (between the 1 SS Pz and 12 SS Pz). After the attack stalled, they defended the same area until late January. They gave up some ground in this period, ending up in the area around Schoppen. All three Regiments were engaged in these battles.

Pieter
vandorenp
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:57 am
Location: Suffolk, VA
Contact:

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by vandorenp »

ORIGINAL: tukker

I have a book called 'The battle of the Bulge- Operations of the 3rd Fallschirmjäger Division' by Hans J. Wijers.
Would that be this book http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Bulge-The- ... 0811713520 ?

Or

this book http://home.planet.nl/~wijer037/bulge/f ... 20book.htm

and then there is this http://books.google.com/books?id=omTgSt ... on&f=false which briefly mentions two regiments starting of the attack.

I have assumed in my work that the 3rd FJ barely got the 9th regiment into the line in time for the assault and that the 8th took its place on the left during the course of the day.
Keydet
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

BUT, is that the insignia image from Wikipedia?
Cause I made that one! [8D]
Yes it is. Nice job on the insignia mate [:)]

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

and then there is this http://books.google.com/books?id=omTgSt ... on&f=false which briefly mentions two regiments starting of the attack.

I have assumed in my work that the 3rd FJ barely got the 9th regiment into the line in time for the assault and that the 8th took its place on the left during the course of the day.

Very Helpful thanks Vandprenp
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

I've edited my above post (edit: its 2 posts up) to include more info I have found.

This information suggests that the 5th Regiment was on the right of the 9th, although moving more slowly, and that all 3 Regiments minus one Bn with Peipers tanks, were moving relatively cohesively in approximately the same area, by the 17th, or D2 in game terms.

When he says "Peiper then changed his direction of advance, leaving the 3rd Fallschirmjäger Division's sector and taking the I/FJR 9 with them on its tanks and headed into a more mountainous area held by the 12th Volksgrenadier Division." Where do you think this more mountainous area is?
I know 12VG was on his right, so it must have been north once he cleared the forest towards Hunningen do you think?

This is where I got the information I have used to plot this, its a bit hard to work out who the original author was, as the link supplied is broken.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new ... eplies?c=9

Image
Attachments
3-FJ-map.jpg
3-FJ-map.jpg (783.21 KiB) Viewed 52 times
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

This is my best guess at the historical start locations and the objectives of the 3FJ Div at the start of the 16th December, based on what I have been able to find on the internet the last 2 days.

Does anyone else know more, or disagree with what I have plotted here?

If no one disagrees it would mean we are missing a Regiment, the 5FJ Rgt, from the historical start for the Elsenborn Ridge Scenario, assuming that the rest of the 8th are in the Loshiem Gap scenario.

I'm assuming the original author made a mistake with the name of the 8th Regt objective, as Ambleve is way to the North West, and is not consistent with the objective locations given for the other 2 Regiments.


Image
Attachments
3-FJ-map.jpg
3-FJ-map.jpg (783.21 KiB) Viewed 52 times
User avatar
Joe D.
Posts: 4004
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:05 pm
Location: Stratford, Connecticut
Contact:

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by Joe D. »

I was under the impression that all the Axis para regiments used during the Bulge were green troops and not very effective.
IMO, after their Pyric victory at Crete, Fallschirmjägers ceased being an offensive threat.
Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.[center]Image[/center]
[center]"The Angel of Okinawa"[/center]
Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

It's true that there were a lot of green troops in the Division after the re-fit, because of the horrendous casualties they sustained in the Falaise Pocket.
If you want to know more read this excellent article.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=817
I think that you will agree that they remained a superb fighting force, well after the Crete campaign.
vandorenp
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:57 am
Location: Suffolk, VA
Contact:

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by vandorenp »

ORIGINAL: dazkaz15

This is my best guess at the historical start locations and the objectives of the 3FJ Div at the start of the 16th December, based on what I have been able to find on the internet the last 2 days.
I do not think you can justify have more than two regiments present on Dec 16. The few sources are describing this as the case.
Keydet
User avatar
simovitch
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:01 pm

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

ORIGINAL: dazkaz15

This is my best guess at the historical start locations and the objectives of the 3FJ Div at the start of the 16th December, based on what I have been able to find on the internet the last 2 days.
I do not think you can justify have more than two regiments present on Dec 16. The few sources are describing this as the case.
I agree with Paul here. To get an idea of how the 3rd FJ was deployed you would have to research how it was pulled from the line near Duren and Aachen.

Edit: Here is a link to a very well documented account of the 3rd FJD in late 1944. I wish I had this information back 5 years ago.

3rd FJD
simovitch

User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

Wow!
Great link to an awesome website.
Thanks simovitch [:)]

I'm going to update my map to try and plot the movements of the units armed with this new information tonight.

This is very interesting stuff that has really caught my attention now.
I won't be happy till I have found the missing regiments of my 3FJ Div [;)]
tukker
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:11 am
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by tukker »

Great stuff, Richard!
User avatar
Remmes
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: NL

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by Remmes »

Awesome read. Thanks very much.
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

Is anyone able to help me to understand what these units were. I tried looking them up but can't find anything about them.

Sturm Zug II. Batl./5, :is this a Storm Trooper unit of the 2nd Batallion, of the 5th Regiment? How would it differ from a regular company?

Nachtrichten Zug II.Batl./5, :I have no idea what Nachtrichten is, and can't get a sensible translation of it from the web?

5.., 6., and 7. Kompanie of the II.Batl./5. :this is obviously the 5th, 6th and 7th Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 5th Regiment.
User avatar
simovitch
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:01 pm

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by simovitch »

Daz, your ability to research German units will be greatly limited without some knowledge of the language and unit designations. The sturm zug was the assault platoon formed from II Bn. The Nachrichten was the equivalent of the US signal corps, so the other unit was the II Bn HQ communications and intelligence platoon.

Have you done any searches on the feldgrau forum?
simovitch

User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Daz, your ability to research German units will be greatly limited without some knowledge of the language and unit designations. The sturm zug was the assault platoon formed from II Bn. The Nachrichten was the equivalent of the US signal corps, so the other unit was the II Bn HQ communications and intelligence platoon.

Have you done any searches on the feldgrau forum?
Yes your right about the language barrier, but I'm learning. Slowly but surely [;)]
Thanks for the link and the help.
User avatar
dazkaz15
Posts: 1267
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 am

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by dazkaz15 »

Ok I've found this now, so that should stop me asking too many questions on the subject of translation [:)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_o ... tary_terms
User avatar
simovitch
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:01 pm

RE: 3 FJ Division

Post by simovitch »

Nice find![;)]
simovitch

Post Reply

Return to “Command Ops Series”