Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post bug reports and ask for help with other issues here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

Post Reply
User avatar
Crazypantoufle
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 am

Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Crazypantoufle »

Hello to everyone!

As a noobie i'm training on small scenarios against AI.

In the guadalcanal scenario, as a japanese, my Bettys never attack PM airfield when i order them to to so.
I even ordered sweeps on PM, but even my zeros stay on the ground instead of flying over PM.I checked, all bases have enough supplies, all the other recon planes can take off from these bases.
But as soon as i order any air attack on PM, nothing happen![:(]

I even notice, during my previous guadalcanal campaign as allies, that japanese AI also never attacked PM even when there were interesting targets, and with low air defense![X(]

So i am wondering if PM may be bugged in the guadalcanal scenario.

Any suggestion or help would be welcomed.
Uncivil Engineer
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:56 pm
Location: Florida, USA

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Uncivil Engineer »

ORIGINAL: Crazypantoufle

Hello to everyone!

As a noobie i'm training on small scenarios against AI.

In the guadalcanal scenario, as a japanese, my Bettys never attack PM airfield when i order them to to so.
I even ordered sweeps on PM, but even my zeros stay on the ground instead of flying over PM.I checked, all bases have enough supplies, all the other recon planes can take off from these bases.
But as soon as i order any air attack on PM, nothing happen![:(]

I even notice, during my previous guadalcanal campaign as allies, that japanese AI also never attacked PM even when there were interesting targets, and with low air defense![X(]

So i am wondering if PM may be bugged in the guadalcanal scenario.

Any suggestion or help would be welcomed.

Where are your planes based? Level 1 airfields will not support offensive operations, so if the airfields at Lae and Buna have not been upgraded to 2 that could be the problem. I've played the Guadalcanal scenario in stock and using DBB map and don't recall any problems such as you describe.
User avatar
Crazypantoufle
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 am

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Crazypantoufle »

My bombers are in Rabaul, size 4 with much supply.
That's why i don't understand why it does not work.[&:]
User avatar
n01487477
Posts: 4755
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:00 am

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by n01487477 »

ORIGINAL: Crazypantoufle

Hello to everyone!
Welcome to the community. I'm sure you're going to appreciate the game mechanics - given time ;-) I hope that you have upgraded to the beta and read some of the AAR's and War Room info for new players.

So i am wondering if PM may be bugged in the guadalcanal scenario.

Any suggestion or help would be welcomed.
It isn't bugged as I've played this scenario quite a lot in PBEM and VS the AI and not had too much difficulty achieving bombing raids and sweeps.

Before attacking P.M you'll need to recon to gain D/L and have sweeps to cause attrition to the enemy.

There are multiple factors responsible for a raid to happen including:-
1.Leader ratings.
By: WWENGR

Air Group Leaders

Selecting leaders for air groups is a fairly complex task. Most aircraft can perform multiple roles, so leader selection criteria must include consideration of how the air group will be employed.

Notes on Air Group Operations Influenced by Leader Qualities



Pilot experience affects operational losses.

Air groups with morale < 50 must pass a morale test before flying an offensive mission. If the test is failed, no aircraft will fly.

Air groups flying Naval Search, ASW Patrol, or CAP must pass two morale tests before flying. Each morale test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%.

Level Bombers must pass three tests before flying an offensive mission. Each test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%:



Experience test.

Test against the leader’s Air Skill.

Morale test.



Pilot experience affects the chances to find the target in a strike mission.

Pilot experience affects air-to-air combat results.

Leader’s air skill affects results in air-to-air combat.


CAP as Principle Role

This includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, and Float-Fighters. Assign leader using these priorities:



Inspiration – Influences the number of CAP aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.

Air Skill – Influences the air-to-air combat results.

Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Offensive Missions as Principle Role (except Level Bombers)

Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, Sweep, and Recon. Air Groups include includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, Float-Fighters, Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:



Inspiration – Influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.

Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

Air Skill – Influences results in air-to-air combat.

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Level Bombers with Offensive Missions as Principle Role

Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:



Inspiration – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.

Air Skill – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly.

Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Patrol Missions as Principle Role

Missions include Naval Search and ASW Patrol. Air Groups include Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, level bombers, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:



Inspiration – Influences the number of patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.

Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat (aircraft can be intercepted by CAP, but this is unlikely).

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Transport Missions as Principle Role

Missions include Supply Transport and Troop Transport. Air Groups include Transports, Patrol, and Level Bombers. Assign leader using these priorities:



Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.

Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat (aircraft can be intercepted by CAP, but this is unlikely).

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Training Mission as Principle Role

This includes all air groups. Assign leader using these priorities:



Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.

Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat (aircraft can be intercepted by CAP, but this is unlikely).

No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Assign leader using these priorities:



Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.

Inspiration – Influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.

Air Skill – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly.

No other skills or qualities have any influence.
2.Weather.
3.D/L
4.Escorts available
5.fatigue
6.Experience
7.Alt.
8.Airfield size vs aircraft stationed there.
9.Supply and Support
10.Dice Rolls.

It can be frustrating at times, but this isn't an RTS and not meant to simulate modern communications etc.

I would say to you to post more screen shots in the future and ...

I will close with a request that you ask these types of questions in the War Room, until you have verified that it is a bug instead of maybe not understanding the game mechanics. ;-) And do a search ;-)

From DTravel
Time to post this again. You want to look at Prerequisite #4 and Limitation #5


LAND BASED AIR CHECKLIST
Note: this listing is for Land-Based Air units only! Carrier based air units are not subject to many of these conditions.

This listing is for Offensive Missions (p. 122) only. (Airfield attack, Port attack, Naval attack, Ground attack, Sweep, Recon.)

Any page numbers listed are the printed numbers at the bottom of the manual page. Not the .pdf file page count number. FRD means Fractions Rounded Down; FRU means Fractions Rounded Up.

References to 'morale checks', 'experience checks', and 'leadership checks' are assumed to be a d100 roll against the stated attribute. Presumably if the roll is <= the attribute then the unit passes the check. But this is an assumption. How this check is actually carried out is never stated in the documentation.

Prerequisites are conditions that must be met for a mission to be attempted at all. Once all the prerequisites are met, the number of aircraft that will actually fly is determined by subtracting from the number of 'Ready' aircraft in the unit as listed in Limitations. Finally, once you have gone thru all of that, your digital pilots may still not be able to complete the mission for any of the reasons listed under Aborts.

Some Prerequisites and Limitations have the same number. This was done when the condition was the same but the exact effects varied depending on the situation. Prerequisite #1 is an example, the minimum number of aircraft is dependant on it being a day or night mission.


PREREQUISITES:
1) (Day missions only) A minimum of two (2) ready aircraft in the unit. (p.124)
1) (Night missions only) A minimum of six (6) ready aircraft AND a minimum unit morale of 50. (p.126)
2) Target must be within unit's extended range. (p.124)
3) If the unit's morale is < 50, unit must pass a morale check to attempt a mission. (p.126)
4) The initiating airfield must be greater than size 1 (except for Recon). (p. 134)
5) The air unit must agree to fly the mission. Some of the factors affecting whether a unit will agree to fly a mission are covered in rule 7.2.2.12 (p.131).
6) Escorting fighters. The reference to this is highly confusing and can be interpreted many ways. A clarification on this is required. It has been stated that there is a maximum number of escorts that can be required. If that max is met, then the ratio of CAP:escorts becomes irrelevant.
7) Airfield damage must be less than 20+(Size*5) (p.165).
8) (Level Bombers Only) For Ground Attack missions only, the number of Ready aircraft in the unit must >= 50% of the unit's maximum strength. Does not apply if unit is joining an already initiated attack. (Undocumented. Confirmed by programmers.)

LIMITATIONS:
1) (Level Bombers Only) An experience check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
2) (Level Bombers Only) A leadership check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
3) (Level Bombers Only) A morale check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
4) (Level Bombers Only) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
4) (Non-Level Bombers) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 10% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127)
5) (Level Bombers Only) If the base's airfield is below a minimum size (determined by 4 + (aircraft type's max load/6500) FRD) then Level Bombers :
a) Will fly no farther than Normal Combat Range (no Extended range missions) (p.128)
b) Will carry a payload as though they were flying at Extended Combat Range (p.128)
c) Will suffer increased Operational losses. (p.133)
6) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *50, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.165)
7) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *100, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.165) (This is in addition to Limitation #6.)
8) If it is winter in a Cold Zone, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.173)
9) (Non-Level Bombers) If base supplies are not >= base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will fly (p.190).
9) (Level Bombers Only) If base supplies are not >= twice base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will fly (p.190).
10) (Level Bombers Only) From the 1.3 patch: “They will still resist flying against land units, if the range is greater than 10 for the Japanese or 8 for the Allies, but will do so with good rolls.”

ABORTS:
Once it has been determined that the unit will fly a mission and how many aircraft will participate, the mission may be aborted by any of the following (note: the turn processing display at the bottom of the screen will show messages if either of these applies):
1) Poor Weather. If either the initiating or target hex is experiencing bad weather (indicated on the map by a cloud symbol if "Show Clouds" has been set in Preferences) there is a chance the mission will not fly at all.
2) Navigation. There is a chance that poor navigation or an inability to find the target will cause the mission to fail. Factors affecting this are listed in rule 7.2.2.14 (p.132). In addition, Level Bombers flying from a too small airfield (see Limitations, above) will have an increased chance of this.


VERY LOW ALTITUDE ATTACKS:
If an air unit's altitude is set to 100 feet, then special rules and considerations come into play. See p.129-130. Among these are:
1) Naval attack missions will attempt "skip bombing" of their targets. Generally, should only be attempted by units with a minimum experience of 60.
2) Heavy known flak at the target may cause the unit to abort and not fly at all.
3) TFs made up of only Barges and/or PT Boats can only be attacked by fighter-bombers OR air units with an altitude set to 100 feet. (Fighter-bombers are not required to have their altitude set to 100 feet to attack these ship types.)


NOTE ON AVIATION (AV) SUPPORT:
AV support is not required to launch a mission. However, it is required to keep planes in a Ready state so they can fly and to repair any planes damaged during a mission. So air units recently moved to a base without AV support can fly a mission but are unlikely to be able to recover from it to effectively fly a second.


HINTS, RUMORS AND INNUENDO:
Some players have concluded or claim knowledge of additional, undocumented, conditions that can limit or prevent offensive missions. None of these are confirmed! If anyone reading this can CONFIRM the condition, please provide the writer with supporting evidence so that this list may be updated. Many of these appear to be based on players' experiences with other games.

a) Ground Attack missions require the target to have an unknown minimum Detection Level.
b) Having too many Limitations apply can cause the unit to not fly, even if the math does not reduce the number of aircraft to zero.


_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.
User avatar
PaxMondo
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:23 pm

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by PaxMondo »

+1

No bug. This game and scenario are way beyond this level of bug.

You don't control AI and it is only so-so. If you can't hit PM, most likely candidate is weather, but Damian's list is complete so walk through each one.
Pax
User avatar
Quixote
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Quixote »

Crazypantoufle, I sent you a PM. Don't know if you regularly check the email linked to your account or not, so I'll post a note here, too. Also, welcome to the forums, sir!
User avatar
Crazypantoufle
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 am

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Crazypantoufle »

Thank you for your answers![;)] (and sorry in advance for my mistakes in english, as i am french and don't practice english except when trying to understand 300 pages manuals[:D])

I know my question looks a bit silly, but believe me, even if i am a newbie in this game, i'm not the type of lolilol player who ragequits when loosing or whines when something is too complicated and rejects the fault on the game. Otherwise i wouldn't have even bought that game, huh?[8|]

I tried and waited MANY turns before accusing this failure to be a bug.

I know there's a lot of factors which are involved in anything that happen in this game, including luck, like it was the case in that war.

But i can't imagine that this game is sooo complicated that even with well qualified squadron commanders, rested pilots with good morale, well maintained planes in at least equal number to the ennemy on target, no overstacking on airfields, good weather sometimes, enough supply, strong planned escort, nice bathroom and good view on the seaside, my planes would at least take off a few times with patience.

But no plane taking off in 3 WEEKS time, without any message about mission canceling. And these same planes take off without any problem as soon as i order them to attack any other target than Port Moresby.
I may not be an expert, but i can't imagine why my squadrons from Rabaul prefer bombarding far and high protected Luganville without escort under very bad weather than close and less protected Port Moresby with strong escort under a marvellous sun.
Or did i forget to toggle the "give sunglasses to squadron pilots" and "ask politely to follow orders" button on?

Anyway, thank you guys for trying to help me (and thank you Damian to give me these important details, i was wondering about these 'inspiration', 'leadership' and 'admin' influence). I love this game so much i really want things to work, and i may be a bit stressed when i see any risk of breaking this dream i have with witp ae. Breaking things like these zero-immuned-and-carrier-hitters-from-the-other-side-of-the-map 4Ebombers. But i know this is not a bug concerning these bloody b17s.[:'(]
User avatar
n01487477
Posts: 4755
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:00 am

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by n01487477 »

No problem mate -
Pm me if you want my email address so you can send a turn to me and I'll have a closer look at it ...

If not, keep plugging away at the depth and layers of this game. It is a long journey...
Chris21wen
Posts: 6318
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Cottesmore, Rutland

RE: Impossible to bombard Port Moresby in Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: n01487477

a) Ground Attack missions require the target to have an unknown minimum Detection Level.

I'm confused with this, could you explain pease.
Post Reply

Return to “Tech Support”