Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

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Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

No DivePac beyond this point...Use of deadly force has been authorized [:D]
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This will be a slow paced game, at start, using Reluctant Admiral 4.1 which was just finalized last week. DivePac has some on going medical issues, so we probably get a turn done every two to three days for most of December, but he feels the pace will pick up after the initial moves are underway. He is a disciple of Mike Solli school of Japanese economics. He is probably more OCD when it comes to managing it than even I am, which is saying something.

I had started a PBEM game vs DivePac (Des) using this mod, but the Chinese LCUs were at full TO&E even if 50% disablement. Thus, the game was put on hold while I assisted John 3rd in getting some errors from the Allied side cleared up and some re-organizing of Japanese Naval HQs (mainly which would be Command HQs and their range). The Pensacola convoy will start at Darwin vs the last version which put it at Manila. We had played only three turns and for those turns, Pearl was hit every day sinking 3 BBs and putting the remaining 5 out of the war for over a year or more.

Besides the normal combat results being posted, I'll try to share how I manage the Allied logistics at start. This will include what specific transports I use, what escorts are assigned, and where they are going. The problem for the Allies is not enough fuel or supply, but getting it away from the USA in an efficient manner. As some Allied players can clearly state, it is easy to run short of fuel early in the game if you're not careful. I will post some spreadsheets and other useful hints that I have learned over years playing WITP/AE.

Now, I await the first turn...
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Potential House Rules (HR)

I'm awaiting a reply from DivePac (Des) and will edit as needed.


1. 1st turn can have multiple port attacks, but ONLY from carriers. Manila, Singapore, and Pearl may have Fighters up and on CAP (less than 40%). Allies cannot transfer new Squadrons reflecting prior knowledge.

2. PPs to move out of national borders (Japan - Manchuria, Thai) and (Allies - India, China)

3. No strategic bombing (Oil, Resources, HI, LI, etc.) on EITHER side until July 1943

4. Manila subs can form TF based on a date/time stamp (use the last digit in a pre-determined e-mail). Since this may be the second port attack, the last digit in the time (hh:mm:ss) is used to determine how many subs can form TF (anywhere from 1-9 SS can be formed up).

5. Non-historic 1st turn, normal reinforcements, PDUs ON, orders for TF formed already OK, no transfers. China is active for both sides on Turn 1.

6. Aircraft Limitations (reflecting the Mod):
-No A6M3 on CVEs
-No A6M4 on any form of Carrier
-A7M Sam and B7A-D Grace cannot be operated from CVEs

7. Four-Engine Bombers:
a. 4E bombers restricted to 10k or higher for naval and ground attacks (does not include PBY/Mavis type patrol craft). They can go below 10k after January 43.
b. 4E bombers CANNOT bomb troops

8. Single ship TF – The Allied player will not form them deliberately after January 42 due to the AI code often ignoring them and not sending out bombers to attack. Japan will be allowed to send out single ships

9. Fighter Altitude Rules: Combat altitude from:
Dec 1941- May 1942 20,000
June 1942-Dec 1942 25,000
1943 30,000
1944--45 Whatever

10. Night Bombing must have 50% Moonlight through the end of 1943. Starting January 1, 1944 Night Bombing may occur in any condition. Japan will need at least 50% for the whole war.

11. Burma/NE India Monsoon Rules
Offensive operations in jungle and mountain hexes on the Burmese front should be stopped from May 15th to October 15th for the Monsoon Season, allowing R&R, unit rotations, and give both players on the front a much less bloody (and much more interesting) experience. This would mean:
1. No deliberate or shock attack in the jungle hexes in the designated area
2. Deliberate Attacks allowed in non-Jungle Terrain
3. Bombardment attacks are still allowed anywhere
4. Movement into friendly or empty hexes is still allowed
5. The number of aircraft allowed to fly from a base is reflected in its size x10 (Sz-5 mean 50% can fly. The others may rest/train.
6. No offensive carrier operations in the Gulf of Bengal against Burma (other naval ops, including bombardment, are still allowed). Striking either Bengal, Northern India or Malaya from carriers in the Gulf is still allowed, of course.

Hexes would be corresponding to everything above the "Thailand" label within Burmese and Thailandese borders + the few jungle hexes going 3 or 4 hexes into "India" (Kohima, Ledo, Imphal area)








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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by Mike Solli »

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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

As an Allied player, I like to keep a list of those major Japanese troop formations that are "FREE."
I want to keep track of where his major assaults are headed.

Unit......................Location
4 Ind Mixed Rgt...........Lang Son
21 Ind Mixed Bde........Hanoi
65 Bde........................Takao
Gds Mixed Bde.............Tokyo

Imp Gds Div................Battambang
2 Div
.....4 Rgt
.....16 Rgt
.....24 Rgt
4 Div
5 Div
.....11 Rgt
.....21 Rgt
.....42 Rgt
16 Div
.....9 Rgt
.....20 Rgt
.....33 Rgt
18 Div
.....55 Rgt
.....56 Rgt
.....114 Rgt
21 Div......................Takao
30 Div
.....41 Rgt
33 Div......................Nagasaki
38 Div......................Hong Kong
48 Div
.....47 Rgt
.....1 Formosa
.....2 Formosa
55 Div
.....114 Rgt
.....112 Rgt
.....143 Rgt
.....55 Cav
56 Div
.....113 Rgt
.....146 Rgt
.....148 Rgt

1 Para Assault Div........Peleliu
1 China Assault Div.......Truk
2 China Assault Div.......Etorofu
1 Sasebo Assault Div......Saipan
2 Sasebo Assault Div......05-Aug-42
1 Kure Assault Div........Babeldoab
2 Kure Assault Div........01-May-42
1 Maizuru Assault Div.....Saipan
2 Maizuru Assault Div.....12-Mar-42

1 Tank Rg
2 Tank Rgt
4 Tank Rgt
6 Tank Rgt
7 Tank Rgt
8 Tank Rgt
11 Tank Rgt
14 Tank Rgt
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Fuel, the life blood of a modern fleet. Here is my list of those who will be moving it and to where.
After my CVs, the fast AOs get priority on escorts.

FUEL:Ships to Move It

Type...Class..............Capacity.....Spd...Where
TK......Sun Type H..........6650........12.....Abadon to India
TK......ETC Type-M..........5190........12.....Abadon to India

TK......BTC Type-L..........8075........14.....Abadon to Cape Town
TK......BP Type-D...........10800.......14.....Abadon to Cape Town

TK......Federal Type-E......9430........14.....Cape Town to Perth

AO......Patoka..............9820........11.....USA to…
xAK.....EC2 Liberty Cargo...0/6250/500..12.....USA to…
AO......Kanawha.............7850........13.....USA to…

AO......Admlty/Dale AO......10150.......14.....USA to…
TK......T2-SE-A.............14250.......14.....USA to…
xAK.....Euro K..............0/5600/200..14.....USA to…

AO......Kennebec............12950.......16.....USA to …
TK......Shell Type-A........12650.......16.....USA to …
TK......Esso Type-T.........14025.......16.....USA to …
xAK.....C2-T Cargo..........0/5600/300..16.....USA to …

AO......Neosho..............14950.......16.....Follow CVs

xAK.....Euro L..............0/7580/550..17.....USA to …
xAK.....C3-S Cargo..........0/7010/500..17.....USA to …
xAK.....C3-E Cargo..........0/5600/300..17.....USA to …

The last three classes of xAKs are used as Tankers due to their speed and already limited liquid capacity.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by Arnhem44 »

Will follow this one with interest, I tend to adopt an on the fly methodology when it comes to optimizing Allied resup routines/assets, ie. they're anything but optimized.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by Olorin »

Ah, good timing, Michael. I am about to start my first GC vs AI as allies and this AAR will help massively. [8D]
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Since DivePac (New Zealand - South Island) was unable to complete the turn his time last night and for my morning turn (my Eastern USA which is 8 hours difference) over a cup of green tea with local honey (trying to do a few healthy things each day), I can post some my things I find useful that others may want to copy and use for their games.

Cargo Classes

Type.....Class...............Capacity.....Speed.....Endurance..... Where
xAK.....Transmarine......0/3200..........12..........11000..........WC to Pearl
xAK.....Harriman...........0/5200..........12..........14900..........USA to
xAK.....Isthmian...........0/4800..........12..........13600..........USA to
xAK.....Hog Island.........0/4900..........12..........14700..........USA to
xAK.....Luckenbach.......0/6300..........12..........16600..........USA to
xAK.....Pacific L.............0/3900..........12..........12000..........Convert to xAP…USA
xAK.....Dominion M.......0/5550..........13..........14600..........Convert to xAP…USA
xAK.....Euro K..............0/5600/200....14..........17900..........USA to
xAK.....Southwest........0/6410..........14..........13200..........USA to
xAK.....C1-A Cargo.......0/4550..........14..........19300..........Convert to xAP in 2/42
xAK.....C2 Cargo.........0/5600/200......16..........13500..........Convert to xAP in 2/42
xAK.....C3-E Cargo.......0/5700/400....17..........15600..........USA to
xAK.....Euro L..............0/7580/550......17..........14000..........USA to

xAK.....Pacific M...........0/2900..........12..........6000...........Abadan to India
xAK.....Dominion L.......0/6400..........12..........16800..........Cape Town to
xAK.....Euro M..............0/4175..........14..........12300..........Cape Town to

Transmarine - I usually form two 30 ship TF that go from San Fran to Pearl with about 100k supply. they get three to four escorts.

Pacific L and Dominion M are my workhorses in getting troops from USA to bases all the way to Australia. They start in India and go through a conversion to xAP at Cape Town for 24 days. Then to Panama and USA. So, not until Feb 42 do they arrive in numbers at USA to be used.

I form most TF by speed. I don't usually form any with more than 2 knots difference. So, the 12 and 13 speed transports go together, then the 14 speed, and the last group will be the 16 and 17 speed.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

North Pacific:

I will build up Prince Rupert as my main supply and fuel source for this area. To help this, I send the 19th Combat Eng Rgt that starts at San Fran up here. It gets withdrawn in 206 days, so it can help. Some BFs from within Canada will move here.

Kodiak is my main supply and fuel depot for this area. I steadily expand the whole base.

I don't go beyond Umnak, Dutch Harbor, and Cold Bay for build up. This mod has Japan starting with an Assault SNLF Divison at Ominato which has close to 200 AV, so I will be careful at start.

I use some of the extra Transmarine Cargo Class xAKs to move both supply and fuel.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Central Pacific:

Besides getting more supply and fuel to Pearl, there will not be much going on here.

Midway, Johnson, Palmyra, and Christmas each get a PBY squadron for search.

Christmas - Port 1(1) and AF 0(5) is my main midway stop over point for most ships if they cannot make it all the way to South Pacific. Since this game uses stacking limits, I can only place 30k in troops here. I will max out this base over the first few months, including forts.

An often overlooked way to save fuel as Allies is rule 6.2.13.1 "Refueling in Port and At Sea" which is on page 106-7.
The refuel options are:
Do Not Refuel - No refueling will take place
Minimal Refuel - Each ship takes on enough fuel to complete the present TF mission, plus approximately a 10% pad
Tactical Refuel - Similar to Minimal Refuel, but with a 50% pad
Full Refuel - All ships are refueled to their maximum Endurance

These options are the main reason I use Christmas as a place to store both fuel and supplies. Here is why. I form up my TF at San Fran, click on the various "Refuel" option to get the TF to "Do Not Refuel." This means it will not try to refuel once it gets to Christmas. It will unload the fuel, supplies, and troops at Christmas. I then select San Fran as both Destination and Home Port. I then go through the "Refuel" option to get it to "Minimal Refuel." Then I hit the "Replenish TF from Port." With this setting, the TF will only added enough fuel to return back to San Fran with very little fuel left over. Make sure you set any "Waypoints" before the "Replenish TF" button is clicked on. If you don't do these small steps in micro-managment, then much of the fuel you want to stockpile away from USA will be used to fuel the TF to go back to USA. I use the same method when I send TFs to the South Pacific. You will be surprised how much extra fuel you can store at a base with this method.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by John 3rd »

Go get 'em Michael!

Glad to have an AAR of RA from the ALLIED point-of-view.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by Mike Solli »

Furiously taking notes.....
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by Cribtop »

Great stuff. Quick question - per the house rule, Japan can form one ship TFs. Does the code treat Japanese ships differently in this regard?
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by SqzMyLemon »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

These options are the main reason I use Christmas as a place to store both fuel and supplies. Here is why. I form up my TF at San Fran, click on the various "Refuel" option to get the TF to "Do Not Refuel." This means it will not try to refuel once it gets to Christmas. It will unload the fuel, supplies, and troops at Christmas. I then select San Fran as both Destination and Home Port. I then go through the "Refuel" option to get it to "Minimal Refuel." Then I hit the "Replenish TF from Port." With this setting, the TF will only added enough fuel to return back to San Fran with very little fuel left over. Make sure you set any "Waypoints" before the "Replenish TF" button is clicked on. If you don't do these small steps in micro-managment, then much of the fuel you want to stockpile away from USA will be used to fuel the TF to go back to USA. I use the same method when I send TFs to the South Pacific. You will be surprised how much extra fuel you can store at a base with this method.

I do the same as Japan to keep the forward bases stocked with fuel for combat operations and not be sucked dry by the support transport TF's unloading. The ideal situation is choose transports with long enough legs to reach the destination base and back without having to refuel at all. I'm learning that's a little trickier to pull off with the Allies considering the distances to be covered.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Great stuff. Quick question - per the house rule, Japan can form one ship TFs. Does the code treat Japanese ships differently in this regard?

No, but Des wants his picket ships off the Home Islands and to 'try' to reach by-passed bases. In my game as Japan I see them going across the South Pacific and neither my Emily or Nell/Betty will attack them. That is why I suggested it and will not do after the initial rush to escape the SRA and Luzon.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Pensacola Convoy - Where does she go??

In the latest version of RA, this convoy starts at Darwin (prior version had it unloaded at Manila) fully loaded with the three A-14 Banshee groups and a P-40 group already unloaded, but needing time to repair the damaged airframes. The convoy has 2 BFs (60 Aviation Support each), 3 FA, and 13k in supplies. The Banshee need some time training up their NavB to be truly effective. I also will be sending over the old Vindicator group that start on Lady Lex (she starts this game just to the NE of Pago Pago). A potent force, but a little short of fighters for me.

Right now, she will head north at full speed for turn one. But, where do I send her to fully unload the LCUs and supplies?? Mini-KB starts at Babeldoad with CVL Ryujo, CVL Shoho, and CVL Zuiho (110 aircraft).
Ambon - Ideally, I would like her to go here, but this may be too risky.
Kendari - A good option B, but again, is it too close to potential attacks by Mini-KB.
Koepang - I like this option, but I wonder if it will be too far back for potential attacks against lightly defended transports.
Java - Is "Fortress Java" a possibility?? The extra Aviation Support and time for the DBs to train up their NavB for a month might be an option. The 18th UK Division leaving Cape Town plus the three brigades off the coast of India could go here.
Port Moresby - This mod also has the last two battalions of the 30th Aussie Brigade loaded at Townsville with 13k in supplies initially headed for this port. I usually don't defend this base, but I could use the four small transport groups to get the rest of the other brigade here. So, about 150 in Aviation Support, two brigades, and other support digging in from very early on.

Decisions, Decisions....

OT - Turn one is in my inbox, so I will get started with the war. I have my weekly meeting to attend this morning and early afternoon, so I have time to decide (I'm off work today). DivePac wrote that he will be starting an AAR for the "Evil Empire."

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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Pensacola Convoy - Where does she go??

I'm a big fan of hanging back in Java with the majority of the Allied airpower in the beginning, getting the groups trained up, and then making a difference once the convoys have to appear in the constrained areas of the Java sea. Also it's harder to cover ships here with LR CAP. Bombing the bases is almost impossible in the beginning. So you have basically a month to get ready.

So if it were me I'd set them in Soerabaja, (and bring back a good portion of the PI P-40s) to train and wait for the right moment. If one presents itself early they can always fly in to Ambon, Kendari, Balikpapan or another spot.
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by MateDow »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fuel, the life blood of a modern fleet. Here is my list of those who will be moving it and to where.
After my CVs, the fast AOs get priority on escorts.

FUEL:Ships to Move It

Type...Class..............Capacity.....Spd...Where

TK......BTC Type-L..........8075........14.....Abadon to Cape Town
TK......BP Type-D...........10800.......14.....Abadon to Cape Town

Do you find that this works better than using tankers to move fuel from the Eastern US to Cape Town?

I tend to use this route to protect my tankers from interference at the cost of the long turnaround time (70-ish days).
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by John 3rd »

Well? How does it begin Sir?
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RE: Allied Logistics for Dummies...NY59Giants (A) vs DivePac (J)

Post by ny59giants »

I have just the Combat Replay back (not watched yet). I'm awaiting the game turn. Since 7am my time is 11pm his time, I don't expect a turn until Saturday morning. Des is undergoing treatment for cancer, so some days he is not feeling well.

OT - I just saw my first P-47D2 over Cox Bazar at 42k altitude on 15th July '43 in my other game. He lost 18 to 14 Tojo, but only 7 pilots for me. Moved in a Frank group to counter. [:)]
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