Asterisk question

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slane_slith
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Asterisk question

Post by slane_slith »

Need some help again.

I’m playing as the allies. The Japanese are starting to send TF’s close to my base in Surabaya, Dutch East Indies. I gave orders for a naval attack. I set each of the groups for 40% ASW, 10% Search and 10% rest. The way that I understand it is that 40% of each group should have attacked the enemy ships. To the best of my knowledge not one plane took off. I’ll admit that I paid no attention to the weather but this also has gone or for several “days”. Then I saw the asterisk next to each of my air groups at Surabaya (i.e. Naval Attack*). I thought that I had read on this forum that an asterisk meant that something was not set up right but I’ve had several groups of PA, LB, TB, etc set up with 80-ASW, 10-Search and 10-Rest and they’ve been going after hostile subs. Of course I can’t find the thread now.

So what’s right?

Now that I’ve started looking I’ve noticed the asterisk on nearly all my air group orders. Another example is my Chinese fighter groups. I’ve had them set up for ground attack. 1000 ft altitude, 50-CAP, 10-Rest there should be 40% going off to strafe the enemy, nothing happens.

Another question kind of related is what’s the difference between setting a CAP of 90% and Rest 10% and just setting a CAP of 90%? I have been giving every air group a 10% rest, is there any point?

Thanks everyone in advance.
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
Alfred
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by Alfred »

1. Setting an air group to 40% ASW does not mean you are going to have 40% of the squadron actually attack a submarine.

Firstly, all that you are doing is setting 40% of the airplanes to search for submarines. If any planes actually find a submarine you will see a message but if they flew and failed to sight a submarine you don't get a message saying that is what happened.

Secondly, even if you spot a submarine, you are absolutely not guaranteed that the spotting plane will then proceed to prosecute an attack. Much depends on the the pilot's AWS skill level.

2. As to the asterisk, you should post a screen shot and advise which version of the game you are playing.

3. Setting a x% to rest commands that percentage to rest, it will not join the CAP. If you have a specified CAP of 90% (which by the way can be OK under certain circumstances only in the short term) and no rest % specified, then the reamining 10% of grounded planes may subsequently take off and join the CAP if sufficient warning has been received.

Alfred
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msieving1
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by msieving1 »

ORIGINAL: slane

Need some help again.

I’m playing as the allies. The Japanese are starting to send TF’s close to my base in Surabaya, Dutch East Indies. I gave orders for a naval attack. I set each of the groups for 40% ASW, 10% Search and 10% rest. The way that I understand it is that 40% of each group should have attacked the enemy ships. To the best of my knowledge not one plane took off. I’ll admit that I paid no attention to the weather but this also has gone or for several “days”. Then I saw the asterisk next to each of my air groups at Surabaya (i.e. Naval Attack*). I thought that I had read on this forum that an asterisk meant that something was not set up right but I’ve had several groups of PA, LB, TB, etc set up with 80-ASW, 10-Search and 10-Rest and they’ve been going after hostile subs. Of course I can’t find the thread now.

So what’s right?

Now that I’ve started looking I’ve noticed the asterisk on nearly all my air group orders. Another example is my Chinese fighter groups. I’ve had them set up for ground attack. 1000 ft altitude, 50-CAP, 10-Rest there should be 40% going off to strafe the enemy, nothing happens.

Another question kind of related is what’s the difference between setting a CAP of 90% and Rest 10% and just setting a CAP of 90%? I have been giving every air group a 10% rest, is there any point?

Thanks everyone in advance.

The asterisk just means that you have multiple patrol levels set, i.e., 40% ASW, 10% Search, etc.

The bombers aren't going to attack unless they know where the targets are. With only 10% search, you don't have many planes out looking for targets. You'd probably be better off dropping the ASW and just setting 50% Naval Search.
-- Mark Sieving
slane_slith
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by slane_slith »

I understand what your saying Alfred,msieving1 and it makes sense but I guess I should clarify a couple of things.

The enemy task force that I was after had a carrier, battleship, several cruisers and a couple of destroyers. Its position was reported by another air unit flying a search mission during the AI’s turn (in the morning, I think??). I guess what I’m thinking should happen is that evening (still while the AI is taking its turn) my planes should have sent the unassigned 40% off to attack this known target. Instead my planes sat on the ground while the enemy task force launched an air strike that played havoc with my base at Makassar.

The next “day” I get my turn. I change all available air groups over to 10% search, 10% ASW and 10% rest so now I’m thinking 70% of my bombers are going to go after this task force. I’ve got something like 6 groups of bombers, 2 fighter groups, patrol groups, etc at this base. I’m thinking that all the bombers will join up and be escorted by the fighters to the target. I let the AI take its turn and still nothing happens.

This is when I noticed the asterisk thing. I’m not at home so I can’t get the screen shot right now but if you click on Surabaya’s hex and then click on the aircraft “tab” you get a screen that looks kinda like:

1st PG/2nd PS------P-40 Warhawk-----10/2-----Escort--------------at 75,25
12th BS/1st BG-----B-18 Bolo-----------7/5----- Naval Attack*-----can’t remember

I can get rid of the asterisk by setting a naval attack with 10% of my force set to rest. What I’m trying to find out is this what I have to do to get my bombers to attack? If it is I don’t like it. I’d much rather do as I have been doing. I might be dividing the squadrons’ tasks but overall I’d have a large force ready to attack.

Thanks again
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
Alfred
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by Alfred »

Let's be clear about this, because your OP is very unclear.

1. The planes in question are the Dutch heffalumps.

2. The heffalumps are on "Naval Attack" for their primary mission but have also been directed to conduct both ASW and "Naval Search"

3. The heffalumps are only 9 plane squadrons.

4. You have a couple of Dutch fighter squadrons co-located with the heffalumps. No mention made of their set range nor of their primary mission.

5. You don't know whether the weather has impacted on flying operations.

6. No mention made of whether the airfield in question has any runway damage.



Well there are several factors which can account for the heffalumps not taking off.

(a) weather conditions both at the airfield and at the target location

(b) the range set for the heffalumps is less than the distance to the enemy task forces

(c) airfield damage is too high to allow for heffalump takeoffs

(d) the range of the heffalumps is set to be greater than that for the fighters - the net result being that the heffalumps could reach the enemy but the escorting fighters can't. 2E bombers are very much prone to not taking off if unescorted and it is known to the heffalump aircrews that there is a heavy enemy fighter reception committee waiting for them

(e) TF sightings by other squadrons are less likely to result in takeoffs by the heffalumps - they are more likely to takeoff if they themselves have spotted the enemy

(f) the heffalumps are flying from a suitable sized airfield which is well stocked with supply, n'est pas? We're not talking about an overloaded airfield, are we?

(g) unit morale and commander leadership stats also play a role

Alfred
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inqistor
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by inqistor »

Lets face it. If you was not training this bomber groups in Naval Attack from beginning, it will not hit any ship. And with CV CAP, they will be shot down anyway, before attack (BOLOs have no armor).

Anyway, depending of morale, planes can choose not to attack, if enemy expected CAP is too strong, and friendly escort is too weak. Try short-range night attack instead (this need both morale, and minimal number of operational planes).
slane_slith
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by slane_slith »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Let's be clear about this, because your OP is very unclear.

1. The planes in question are the Dutch heffalumps.

2. The heffalumps are on "Naval Attack" for their primary mission but have also been directed to conduct both ASW and "Naval Search"

3. The heffalumps are only 9 plane squadrons.

4. You have a couple of Dutch fighter squadrons co-located with the heffalumps. No mention made of their set range nor of their primary mission.

5. You don't know whether the weather has impacted on flying operations.

6. No mention made of whether the airfield in question has any runway damage.



Well there are several factors which can account for the heffalumps not taking off.

(a) weather conditions both at the airfield and at the target location

(b) the range set for the heffalumps is less than the distance to the enemy task forces

(c) airfield damage is too high to allow for heffalump takeoffs

(d) the range of the heffalumps is set to be greater than that for the fighters - the net result being that the heffalumps could reach the enemy but the escorting fighters can't. 2E bombers are very much prone to not taking off if unescorted and it is known to the heffalump aircrews that there is a heavy enemy fighter reception committee waiting for them

(e) TF sightings by other squadrons are less likely to result in takeoffs by the heffalumps - they are more likely to takeoff if they themselves have spotted the enemy

(f) the heffalumps are flying from a suitable sized airfield which is well stocked with supply, n'est pas? We're not talking about an overloaded airfield, are we?

(g) unit morale and commander leadership stats also play a role

Alfred

I’m defiantly starting to see where I’m expecting a little too much from my air crews. Sounds like the biggest problem is me and being at the wrong end of the learning curve. In the interest of anyone new who might run across this in the future I’ll answer your questions:

1. I have a mixed bag in there. I have some British, US and Australian along with the Dutch heffalumps (I like that by the way). The British are mainly what I could pull out of Singapore, etc. The US and Australian I moved forward and of course the Dutch were already there.
2. Yes
3. If that. I did move them around and some planes got left behind here and there. I’ve been having my BF’s move to the broken down planes and get them up and running again. (New player and didn’t realize what was happening to my squadrons as I tossed them here and there)
4. Again a mixed bag, British and Dutch. Their range was set to max. Pretty sure that I checked to make sure they could reach but I could’ve been looking at something wrong. Their primary mission was Escort. CAP 70% Rest 10% others not assigned.
5. No clue about the weather. It was clear enough for Japanese to bomb one of my bases each day.
6. On the first day there was no damage to the airfield. There were plenty of supplies and there was nothing to indicate it was over loaded with aircraft. No asterisks, red/yellow wording, etc. As to the size of the field I did not know that it made a difference until I was looking around trying to answer my question. It’s VERY probable that the field is to short. Also I was not aware that the bombers would not take off unless they were escorted. I was expecting them to take an escort if they had it but otherwise make the attempt.

I guess out of all this the question that I’m really looking for the answer to is:
In the future assuming that my airfield is the correct size, crews properly trained and escorted, supplied and so on that if I set 40% ASW, 10% Search and 10% Rest that if a TF entered the area they would most likely attack it. I just don’t want to get further into the game and lose an important base because I had set to many tasks for a group if you get where I’m coming from. From what I’m reading it sounds like it they should just this early in the war there’s not much chance of it happening.

Thanks again
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
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PaxMondo
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by PaxMondo »

Essentially, if you are asking dutch air crews to do more than take off and land in the first 30 days, you are asking too much. [:D] Teasing here a little, but their exp and morale are so low, they aren't going to do too much else.

Remember this, and be sure to watch your other groups. Low morale and/or low leadership can really adverely effect your air group's perfomance.
Pax
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TommyG
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by TommyG »

You do know that ASW is anti-submarine, right? You are much better off setting them to Naval Attack, with 10% search and skip the ASW entirely.
Also heffalumps (I like it too) will not hit squat, ever. Most of them turn into B-25s, then after 8 months or so of pilot training in Oz at 100% naval attack, you can sometimes get a non lethal hit on a freighter. You get almost zero replacements, so eventually they just fade away.
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michaelm75au
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by michaelm75au »

ORIGINAL: slane

Need some help again.

I’m playing as the allies. The Japanese are starting to send TF’s close to my base in Surabaya, Dutch East Indies. I gave orders for a naval attack. I set each of the groups for 40% ASW, 10% Search and 10% rest. The way that I understand it is that 40% of each group should have attacked the enemy ships. To the best of my knowledge not one plane took off. I’ll admit that I paid no attention to the weather but this also has gone or for several “days”. Then I saw the asterisk next to each of my air groups at Surabaya (i.e. Naval Attack*). I thought that I had read on this forum that an asterisk meant that something was not set up right but I’ve had several groups of PA, LB, TB, etc set up with 80-ASW, 10-Search and 10-Rest and they’ve been going after hostile subs. Of course I can’t find the thread now.

So what’s right?

Now that I’ve started looking I’ve noticed the asterisk on nearly all my air group orders. Another example is my Chinese fighter groups. I’ve had them set up for ground attack. 1000 ft altitude, 50-CAP, 10-Rest there should be 40% going off to strafe the enemy, nothing happens.

Another question kind of related is what’s the difference between setting a CAP of 90% and Rest 10% and just setting a CAP of 90%? I have been giving every air group a 10% rest, is there any point?

Thanks everyone in advance.
The '*' is indicating that you have more than one % patrol mission allocated, like 10% ASW 20% Search. It can only show the one mission so this is a way to show this.
Michael
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pompack
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by pompack »

And some of the more frustrating factors are the stats of the leader of any given a/c unit, in particular the "Aggression" stat. If you are speaking of a unit tasked to bomb, you have a leader with low aggression, and there is rumor that there might be a fighter aloft somewhere within a thousand miles then the unit won't fly. OTOH, if you have a bomber unit with a leader with high aggression and there is a choice between attacking a transport landing troops in the same hex and attacking a carrier at extreme range with massive CAP, the unit will attack the carrier and sustain 99% losses sparing only the leader.

While the leader effects are quite complex, other ones that probably affected you are "Inspiration" and "Air" since both affect the number of available a/c that actually fly.
slane_slith
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by slane_slith »

Ok. I was thinking that I would be able to hold onto Java(?) but it looks like now I'm just going to abandon the whole area. The way it looks between the inexperience and equipment it’s pretty much hopeless. But thanks for your help.
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" -Thomas Paine
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SgtSwanson
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RE: Asterisk question

Post by SgtSwanson »

Do keep all this advise in mind, as it applies to ALL nationalities.

When setting up a Air Base as I call mine, look at these questions first:

1. What's the primary mission of the base? Is it going to be used as a bomber base later? This will help you plan how big you will need it to be. And how many supplies it will need (lots regardless).
2. How many BFs will you need to support the operation? This depends on how many planes you plan on basing there.
3. Remember the rules for planing a mission, lvl 2 for fighters, lvl 4 for 2E bombers, lvl 7 for 4E and lvl 9 for the B-29s (bases used as transfer points only need to be a lvl 1 with Air support). 2x the supply needed, good HQ (an Air HQ) and a good leader.

When planning you need to look at your overall plan. And look at what bases you can work from in the future. Brisbane, Townsville, and Imphal are good examples of bases you will need in the future and for at least the first 12 to 18 months of the war. So, once you do that, go to step 2.

Good luck and good hunting
Sgt Swanson
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93-95 2/502 Inf. 101st Airborne Div.
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