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FatR
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by FatR »

This battle was a great example of exploiting the initial success. Overall, the Line Islands campaign is major disaster for Allies. They will recover soon enough, of course (in terms of capital ships this only offsets earlier Japanese misfortunes), but you will have at least 3-4 relatively quiet months to improve and consolidate your defences.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.

Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
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janh
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by janh »

Congrats, this is really a great victory.  Two things I believe to have learned from you tactics:
1. Have a carpet of subs on your own retreat and, if enough available, also on the enemy retreat path when you anticipate major naval battles
2. Prepare large forward supply bases like Christmas island, which allow you such back-hand strikes...

Can you give us a the loss lists for the past days, I kind of am swamped by all the successes and unlucky feats.  So you basically only lost 1 CL, 1 CA (Maya), and 1 CV (Kaga), plus some DD, SS, and AO and a few damaged?  Well, control of the seas will be yours for another 6 months now.  I wonder whether it still would be worth the risk to send a small (1-3) CV div east of Pearl and hope that Andy shuttled Big back to CONUSA once the dust has settled?




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PzB74
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by PzB74 »

[&o][&o]

Thank you! It was indeed a good victory but also remember that it was fought in very favorable terms;
- The KB and LBA outnumbered the enemy by more than 2-1 in ac
- We achieved surprise attack

Still we had to struggle really hard to finish off 3 carriers and 2 battleships; incredible durable ships.

Indeed, a major forward supply base is worth a lot Jahn. Christmas Island still holds 150k supplies and 52k fuel.
Using the Line Islands as our forward sub hub also allows us to concentrate a sub presence here and as soon as a battle begins subs on patrol can quickly mass into the area.


Johnston Island; the last part of the battle.

We sank 3 PT boats, a sub chaser and a Destroyer Minelayer.
3 ships in port were also hit while 16 ac were destroyed on the ground - no further air activities were observed from Johnston Island this day so mission was accomplished.

Our 3rd consecutive attack in Kalemyo was not a success; had hoped that the fatigued and disrupted defenders would suffer more than the troops attacking. Not quite so, enemy AV
was adjusted from 650 to 2500, quite outrageous really [:'(]

Think you listed our losses quite accurately Jahn;
The carrier Kaga, the heavy cruiser Maya, a light cruiser, 2 destroyers, a fleet oiler as well as ca 5? sunk subs.
In addition the Junyo and 2 CAs were damaged by subs.

A somewhat more comprehensive task is to put together a complete list of Allied ship losses:
2 US and 1 UK carrier, 2 US modern battleships, 4? heavy cruisers, 2? CLAAs, 6? destroyers and a multitude of PT boats, SCs, subs etc.

Also have to look into air losses; my first impression is that KB has lost 35% of its ac complement and 20% of its pilots.
Should be doable to replace all these losses quite soon. We have a reserve of old Vals and Kates until new Judys and Jills comes online.

Yes FatR, we have confirmed our sea supremacy until the end of 43.
Andy will receive a growing number of CVEs and add his suriving carriers to them until enough Essex class ships and CVLs can slowly rebuild his fleet carrier strength.
Base on how well the Junyo took 2 torpedoes and the fact that the Kaga didn't sink until the 8th torpedo hit her I will assume that the Lexington surived being hit by 3 torpedoes.
Saratoga should be back in service by mid 43 while Lexington should be back late in the year.

Assuming that Andy will find another British carrier he will then have the Enterprise, a UK carrier (maybe 2 or even 3 depending on deployment Indian Ocean vs Pacific), Sara and Lex as well as 3 Essex carriers, 6-7 CVLs and ca20 CVEs within the end of the year?
This means 7 CVs (plus 2 UK potentially), 7 CVLs, 20 CVEs fielding 840 ac + 600 ac in the escort carriers.

By the end of the year we should have the Akagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Soryu, Junyo, Taiho, 2 Katsuragis, 3 CVLs and 4 CVEs fielding 810 + 110 ac.
My rough estimate thus indicates carrier parity by 3Q 43. The Hellcat will be superior to the Zeke while the Dauntless-Helldivers and Avengers will be comparable to the Judys and Jills.

New construction will keep us on a 1-1 parity slowling loosing its way to a 1-2 disadvantage at the end of first quarter 44.
This means we have a full year before Andy can challenge the KB if combined with LBA in a defensive role.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 25, 43

Surface Combat & Bomardments

Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,113, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Hagikaze
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
PT-142
PT-143
PT-144, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-145
PT-146
PT-147

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Hagikaze
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
SC-742, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
DD Hatsuzuki
DD Tanikaze
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
PT-142
PT-143
PT-145, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-146, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-147

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,112, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
DD Hatsuzuki
DD Tanikaze
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
DM Tracy, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 82% moonlight: 8,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Johnston Island at 164,112 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed on ground
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed on ground
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground

1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Mikuma
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
AD Markab, Shell hits 1
CLAA Oakland, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AD Rigel, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
315 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 20
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 162
Port hits 2

E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Kirishima
BB Kirishima firing at Johnston Island
BB Hiei firing at Johnston Island
E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Haruna
16th Marine Defense Battalion firing at BB Haruna
BB Haruna firing at 16th Marine Defense Battalion
BB Kongo firing at Johnston Island
CA Mikuma firing at Johnston Island
CL Ninaru firing at Johnston Island
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 37 encounters mine field at Palmyra (170,133)

Japanese Ships
AMc Wa 5
AMc Wa 4
AMc Wa 2
AMc Wa 1

57 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub Attacks

Sub attack near Palmyra at 171,133

Japanese Ships
PB Nagata Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Sargo

SS Sargo launches 4 torpedoes at PB Nagata Maru
Sargo diving deep ....
Sub escapes detection

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat


Morning Air attack on 18th JNAF AF Unit , at 57,47 (Magwe)
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hudson IIIa x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Also attacking 6th Air Division ...
Also attacking 84th JAAF AF Bn ...
Also attacking 18th JNAF AF Unit ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 56th Recon Regiment, at 58,41
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 3

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Blenheim IV bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 31st Field AA Battalion, at 57,47 (Magwe
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 4

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment, at 59,42 (Kalemyo)
Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 34
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 63

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
36 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking 2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment ...
Also attacking 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62420 troops, 712 guns, 844 vehicles, Assault Value = 2466
Defending force 22920 troops, 580 guns, 703 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Japanese adjusted assault: 535
Allied adjusted defense: 2548

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2629 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 187 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 129 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Vehicles lost 27 (2 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
285 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (3 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
33rd Division
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
79th Infantry Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
2nd Mobile Infantry Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
2nd Mobile Engineer Regiment
65th Brigade
24th Infantry Regiment
6th Guards Division
22nd Recon Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
2nd Recon Battalion
38th Division
1st Recon Battalion
Guards Tank Division
21st Army

Defending units:
2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment
32nd Infantry Division
7th Australian Division
14th Indian Division
8th Belfast Heavy AA Rgt /1
13th Indian Light AA Rgt /1
3rd Heavy AA Rgt /1
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
Pathan Construction Battalion
1st KNIL AA Bn /1

-----------------------------------------------------

Johnston Island

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CapAndGown
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by CapAndGown »

ORIGINAL: PzB

Assuming that Andy will find another British carrier he will then have the Enterprise, a UK carrier (maybe 2 or even 3), Sara and Lex as well as Essex, 2 CVLs and a dozen CVEs within October-November?
This means 5 CVs, 2 CVLs, 12 CVEs fielding 500 + 360 ac.

This sentence edited to add Princeton:

There are 3 Essex Class coming in July. (Yorktown II, Lexington II, Bunker Hill) plus six CVLs Monterey, Independence, Cowpens, Belleau Wood, Princeton and Cabot are due by November. CV Intrepid arrives in December, and then another 3 Essex class in March 44.
ORIGINAL: PzB
By the end of the year we should have the Akagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Soryu, Junyo, Taiho, 2 Katsuragis, 3 CVLs and 4 CVEs fielding 810 + 110 ac.

Are you doing any CS->CVL conversions?
ORIGINAL: PzB
My rough estimate thus indicates carrier parity by years end. The Hellcat will be superior to the Zeke while the Dauntless-Helldivers and Avengers will be comparable to the Judys and Jills.

The American planes are better because of armor. What I have seen is that they are twice as hard to shoot down when compared to the Japanese planes. This means your CAP will not be as effective as the American CAP.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by PzB74 »

Did an upgrade to all of those numbers after you quoted them C&G, didn't count the Y & L IIs and underrated the number of CVLs and CVEs at first.
Yep, 2 CS -> CVL conversions but it takes a lot of time and can't be accelerated. Probably forgot to include these two ships, so add another 2 CLVs and 60 ac for the Jap inventory.
- Also need to look at when the 3rd Katsuragi ship and Shinano will arrive; should be around years end as well.

But the basic ratio of 1/1 by 3Q 43 holds, then followed by a slide towards 1-2 by end 1Q 44. I would in other words not expect a full sized Allied offensive in the Central or Southern Pacific until end 43 or beginning 44.

Yep, enemy armored ac will be more durable so a prolonged battle is not to recommend.
Japanese carrier forces is more of a one shot Charlie by late 43; need to make the most out of the first attack and if the air fleets become depleted without inflicting serious damage to the enemy you need to retire ASAP.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by inqistor »

Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
DEFEND? Now is a time for pressing attack! Start defending, by expanding the perimeter [:D]
GET JOHNSTON ISLAND, BOMBARD WEST COAST, CUT USA FROM OCEAN!!!
Ok, I was kidding, although conquering of Johnston Island would be quite funny, defence of lone island is impossible. That was serious error from Andys side, to retreat there. Now he can not support it from rest of Hawaii. You should keep bombarding it, until all ships in port are sunk. 2ADs are priceless target.

Now is the beginning of at least 3 months of total sea domination, so time for some invasions. Somewhere, where several islands could establish mutually supporting airbases. I see two such chains, first is New Caledonia, which allow isolating Fiji even further, and second is island chain, near Alaska, where, I bet, all subs attacking Japan are replenishing. Allies seems poorly prepared for defence. Johnston Island is not maxed out, and even Pearl Harbour, with last recon, had not expanded port yet. But if you could scrap, like 5 extra Divisions, go for south-eastern Australia [8D]


40 is over month production of CORSAIRs, they have not fought particularly well. Because of pilots, or are they not that good? Anyway, another Allied Wunderwaffe seems not that Wunder. Second interesting thing is that daily sorties gap is beginning to seriously thin. In current situation Allies can not allow it. Press further the air offensive!

All those unwanted escorts from KB, made me wondering, if actually the main element needed for escort coordination, is experience? After all, attacks from Carriers are rarely split, and they have high experienced groups at game beginning.

ORIGINAL: PzB

Ground combat at Palmyra (170,133)
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3192 troops, 42 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 92
Defending force 1727 troops, 45 guns, 97 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 5
Tsk, tsk...
That was poorly prepared invasion. Airdrop would had better AV :)
There should be some barges in reserve, were they used?
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
And lack of supply is interesting. They must be burning in huge quantities because of overstacking, and bombardments. How much was there during capture? Over 20k?
Well, considering all, first attack should became disaster, but looks like, after all, audentes fortuna juvat.
3rd Marine Division had 90 experience. It should have over half of its infantry, and most Combat Engineers evacuated but most artillery, and support gone. What will be experience after rebuild? 45-50?
Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62420 troops, 712 guns, 844 vehicles, Assault Value = 2466
Defending force 22920 troops, 580 guns, 703 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Japanese adjusted assault: 535
Allied adjusted defense: 2548

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)
Disruption over 50 is real assault force divider during attack. Unit can have problem even with 10 times weaker enemy. Just rest a day, and it should drop below 50. And assault ratio will rise accordingly.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by PzB74 »


I assumed that Andy would send all his valuable assets in Johnston Island fleeing; today a huge AD was sunk and a heavily damaged AS will most likely follow suit.
Wasn't too keen on letting the depleted air groups of the KB launch further air strikes against Johnston Island and thus exposing the carriers to more sub attack.

Good suggestions Inqistor!

Indeed, I got a full Bde prepping for Johnston Island but as you saw at Palmyra invading an atoll with units with less than 100 prep is asking for trouble.
The unit assaulting Palmyra had 56 prep and got a modified AV of 5... The question is whether what we can gain from capturing Johnston and Midway Islands by now; will it further our cause or only
doom the garrisons that will have to fight to the end as soon as the Allies gain supremacy by the end of the year?

New Caledonia has been open for capture since the beginning of the war but as we decided to move into Oz and the Central Pacific the High Command did not wish to further stretch our resources.
We simply don't have engineers, garrisons and aviation support to capture new territories now.
Alaska is a truly inhospitable place to fight; I'm currently digging into the islands from Paramushiro and towards the Home Islands.
SE Oz is most likely defended by more troops than we can land and I'm not keen on meeting huge numbers of LBA by mid 43.

Will consider our options and prepare for several while we replenish the KB and send our damaged ships to the yards.

The Corsairs fought in either a LRCAP or plain CAP role and was hit by lots of high altitude sweepers.
This negated much of their effect together with fighting superior numbers. So we still don't know how efficient Corsairs are, but no doubt used by skilled pilots in sweeps they
will be deadly.

I went over our carrier dispositions again:

We currently have 6 CVs (450 ac) 2 CVLs (60 ac) and 3 CVEs (90 ac) with a total of 600 ac.
By the end of the year we will receive another 5 CVs (370 ac), 2 CVLs (60 ac) and 2 CVEs (60 ac) with a total of 490 ac.
- This means we can scrounged almost 1100 carrier ac by the turn of the year.

In 44 we will receive our last carrier reinforcements; 3 CVs (210 ac), 1 CVL (30 ac) and 4 CVEs (60 ac) for a total of 300 ac; not a lot.
So 1944 will be the year the Allies truly establish their superiority.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 26, 43

Sub - ASW Attacks

SS-156 hit the Tjerk Hiddings with a dud...and had to pay for it.

Submarine attack near Niihau at 174,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
AD Prairie, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

AD Prairie is sighted by SS I-171
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at AD Prairie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Niihau at 174,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
AS Griffin, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

AS Griffin is sighted by SS I-171
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at AS Griffin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Perth at 48,147

Japanese Ships
SS I-156, hits 22, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Tjerk Hiddes
TK Fenris
xAP Koolinda
xAP Koolama
xAP Aorangi
xAP Glenstrae
xAK Vitorlock
xAK Varela
xAK Sepia
xAK Lavington Court
xAK Governor
xAK Esperance
xAK Empire Plover
xAK Barjora
xAK Jalajaran
xAK Gandara
xAK African Prince
DE Arrow
AP Joseph T. Dickman
AP Leonard Wood

SS I-156 launches 8 torpedoes at DD Tjerk Hiddes
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Tjerk Hiddes attacking submerged sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-156 forced to surface!
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Tjerk Hiddes firing on surfaced sub ....
DE Arrow firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Joseph T. Dickman firing on surfaced sub ....
AP Leonard Wood firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on 77th Chindit Brigade, at 60,42
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 36

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
Also attacking 77th Chindit Brigade ...
Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
Also attacking 77th Chindit Brigade ...
Also attacking 23rd British Brigade ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 7000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 35

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
35 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Katha , at 61,43
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Katha , at 61,43
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 14
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged

Airbase hits 9
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 66th Chinese/C Corps, at 61,44
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 63

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bagging the fugitives

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by Saburo Kurusu »

[&o]

I bow my head to honour and praise you, the mastermind and hero of all JFB's on this planet, dear PZB!!!
Reading those combat reports is as exiting as watching a good movie about the PTO! For me, as a newbie just in the process of playing his first campaign ever (I'm in Feb. 42 now), there is so much to learn from you!

[;)]

And of course not to forget: BANZAI, BANZAI, BANZAI!!!!!
"Santa Maya must be liberated by any means necessary. Even diplomacy if it should come to it."

British PM Sir Mortimer Chris in "Whoops Apocalypse"

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by TenChiMato »

ORIGINAL: PzB

Did an upgrade to all of those numbers after you quoted them C&G, didn't count the Y & L IIs and underrated the number of CVLs and CVEs at first.
Yep, 2 CS -> CVL conversions but it takes a lot of time and can't be accelerated. Probably forgot to include these two ships, so add another 2 CLVs and 60 ac for the Jap inventory.
Hi PzB,
please remember you can now convert all the 4 CS and not just the Chitose and Chiyoda, so add Nishin and the other one (sorry forgot its name) to your to do list. [;)]
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by Cap Mandrake »

Ouch...somebody is going to need a couple of martinis.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by PzB74 »

Thx Saburo [:)] Have you posted on this thread before? If not, welcome you are!
But keep in mind that Scen 2 is tough for the Allied player and Japan should be able to extend Yamatos proficy about running wild for a year.
- Glad you can pick up some tips and hints tough, also makes it more fun to write up the AAR when I know ppl are reading and enjoying.

PS! You should also read Cap and gowns AAR to get more JFB motivation [;)]

That's true TenChiMato! I have chosen not to upgrade the remaining 2 seaplane tenders for 2 reasons:
1. One has a max speed of 22 knots and would have to hold the CVEs company
2. Having seaplane tenders help with ASW and scouting work is a good asset and I'm not sure a 30 ac CVL would benefit us much.
- Using CS to escort convoys with both ASW, search and Rufes for CAP can be handy.

This said I may chose to convert them at a later time if required.

Lol, think Andy is a beer man Capt'n [;)]
Pretty sure he will recover quickly; as I remember from our last game I could almost not sink fleet carriers from 1944 and onwards.
Andy heavily utilizes his jeep carriers and send in huge fleets that bristle with flak and CAP - you have seen how durable Allied ships are, takes a dozen bombs and torps to
sink.

Quiet turn, in a few days we start production of the A6M5 - I have only 25 A6M2 in the pool together with 60 A6M3a's.
Plan has been not to overproduce ac types and be left with huge stacks of obsolete models.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 27, 43

Ground Combat

Trying to clear this Chinese unit out of the jungle hex south of Katha - the Allies only beachead.
Not an easy task but given enough time we should boot it back over the river.

If nothing else I want to establish the most favorable frontline in Burma beforethe monsoon sets in.

Ground combat at 61,44
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7254 troops, 45 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 303
Defending force 4000 troops, 52 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 155

Japanese adjusted assault: 155
Allied adjusted defense: 145

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
209 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
237 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
113th Infantry Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
66th Chinese/C Corps

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Central Pacific

I'm thinking about how we should deploy our troops in this area.
- How many troops should be used as garrisons in an area we know can't be hold much longer than sometime into 1944?
- Which kinds of garrisons would be optimal for the different islands? Divisions, regiments, naval guard units, engineers, tanks, mines etc.
- How much air support and how many planes should be held in readiness?
- How many ships and of which types should we deploy here?

If we have to fight yet another battle for the Line Islands, let me know what you think would be the optimal defensive-offensive dispositions!

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by CapAndGown »

Well, I wouldn't have gone for the line islands in the first place, and then would not have defended them as tenaciously as you have. And I would have been wrong, apparently. [:D]

Nevertheless, I still don't like them. I prefer interlocking, mutually supporting bases. Therefore, I would prefer the Gilberts and Marshalls.

As the game currently stands, the way to make your LBA work for you against carriers is to use it to CAP something that the enemy CAGs will attack. Generally, this means a TF of some sort. By putting a strong CAP over something that the enemy CAGs attack you will be able to wear down their air groups in preparation for committing the KB. What is needed then to prepare for such a battle is some ships that you can throw out there for the enemy CAGs to attack.

Also, I did not see that you used any LRCAP over the KB. That can be effective. From what little I have seen, Tojo's seem to preform at least as well and perhaps better than Zero's against Hellcats.

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by castor troy »

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by EUBanana »

Corsairs have service rating 3, which means their main function will be sweeping, not CAP, as otherwise you'll have a bunch in maintenance all the time.

Which is bad for them, as with range 8, they aren't the most flexible sweepers.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Corsairs have service rating 3, which means their main function will be sweeping, not CAP, as otherwise you'll have a bunch in maintenance all the time.

Which is bad for them, as with range 8, they aren't the most flexible sweepers.


this changes with the second model in late 43 though. That one got a service rating of 2 and you get drop tanks for both the first and second model, gives them a range of 12 which isn´t that bad. And I´ve even been using the first model for Cap, never really had problem with it. Granted, not using insane Cap % but that´s something you can´t do anyway as a Cap % of 70% would sky rocket the pilots´ fat in two days to 30+.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by Lomri »

Our 3rd consecutive attack in Kalemyo was not a success; had hoped that the fatigued and disrupted defenders would suffer more than the troops attacking. Not quite so, enemy AV
was adjusted from 650 to 2500, quite outrageous really
Japanese ground losses:
2629 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 187 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 129 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Vehicles lost 27 (2 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
285 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (3 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

I could be wrong, but my impression from these types of long attrition ground combats with lots of LCUs is that at a certain point you wear down your enemy, and only then do you start destroying LCUs. This is slightly different in AE than WitP from what I've seen, but in WitP I know once you started getting into the "destroyed unit" stage, it was close to over. And losses will look light when you destroy a single LCU because it seems like losses are (mostly?) limited to the unit being destroyed.

I guess my point is while this didn't look great since it was 1 to 4, the destruction of a unit looks to me like a sign that he is about to break here.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by Speedysteve »

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway [;)]

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by PzB74 »

I've never managed to defend the Marshalls well; loads of little islands that can be captured and built up to provide LBA support for the enemy.
But why not defend both the Line Islands and the Marshalls? [:)]

Indeed, lots of ships and CAP is important and I think we have that in place already.

Not sure I would cast judgement over the Corsair now; it was deployed early in an unfavorable position and it's still not as reliable as it will be later in the war.
Just like deploying Tigers in the marshes south of Leningrad in 8-42.

I'm afraid the ground unit that was destroyed was one of the AA gun partial units flown in.
Today we attacked again; 4 times stronger than the enemy, achieved only a 1-2 odds and took 4 times more casualties than the enemy.
Yes, we're wearing down the defenders but it's a slow grind. In a few day a full size crack division will join us.

Thx Speedy. Indeed, Andy didn't call it his greatest achievement - but again; he assumed and made one bad decision.
This combined with bad luck (one more hex and he would have gotten clean away). One single hex was the difference between a clean escape and total defeat.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 28, 43

Sub Attacks

Today we finish of not only the AS Griffin but also the CLAA Oakland, adding further to the tally!

Sub attack near Lihue at 176,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-159

Allied Ships
AS Griffin, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

SS I-159 launches 8 torpedoes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Johnston Island at 164,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-166

Allied Ships
CLAA Oakland, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

CLAA Oakland is sighted by SS I-166
SS I-166 launches 4 torpedoes at CLAA Oakland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ground Combat

Ground combat at Kalemyo (59,42)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66234 troops, 750 guns, 905 vehicles, Assault Value = 2502
Defending force 22691 troops, 578 guns, 700 vehicles, Assault Value = 617

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1143
Allied adjusted defense: 1537

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3075 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 163 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 128 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 39 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 33 (1 destroyed, 32 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
730 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 96 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 47 (3 destroyed, 44 disabled)

Assaulting units:
14th Tank Regiment
6th Guards Division
1st Tank Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
22nd Recon Regiment
79th Infantry Regiment
2nd Mobile Engineer Regiment
2nd Mobile Infantry Regiment
65th Brigade
2nd Recon Battalion
24th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
33rd Division
1st Recon Battalion
6th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
Guards Tank Division
21st Army

Defending units:
7th Australian Division
2nd Hyder Lancers Regiment
32nd Infantry Division
14th Indian Division
13th Indian Light AA Rgt /1
3rd Heavy AA Rgt /1
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
8th Belfast Heavy AA Rgt /1
1st KNIL AA Bn /1

----------------------------------------------------------------

For Davy Jones Locker

Think we can remove the Colorado and maybe the Lexington from this list and exchange the Enterprise for the Hornet; the Wasp should also be added as confirmed sinkings together with the South Dakota.

3 carriers
2 battleships
5 heavy cruisers
2 anti aircraft cruisers
8-9 destroyers
ca 5 subs
1 AS
1 AD
10 SC
14 PTs

That's a major sized enemy fleet - not a bad tally!

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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by crsutton »

Nice thing is that if Andy gets his act together and does not make any more rash mistakes then you have a very good chance of the game going deep into 1946 and being very competitive at the end. It will be fun to see some of the late and post war aircraft in action.

Tojo fares better vs the hellcat as it has decent speed and a much better rate of climb over the zero. But the hellcat is still very good vs the tojo. Hellcat is not as quick as some later war Allied planes but has a great climb rate. I am beginning to think that aside from speed (speed kills), the climb rate of a plane in AE is very important. It seems to me that it helps to break the endless dive if a plane has a good climb rate.

Early corsair is fine but not for point defense at advance bases. When it gets drop tanks it will be OK and the lower service rating of the October version will make a great difference. Lightning is better than the corsair due to its great range but I suspect that the later corsair will be better than the lightning.

I am just getting the P47 and it looks like a war winnner to me....I can't see any weakness and the service rating of one is really a rare treat for the Allies. But of course, in scen #2 the Allied player always seems to be short of aircraft so you gotta watch the losses.
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RE: NEWSFLASH; Carrier battle!

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Speedy

ORIGINAL: castor troy

The Corsair is IMO by far not as dangerous as the P-47. What the Corsair was for everyone in WITP is the P-47 for me in AE. Fast, as durable as a two engined Lightning and EIGHT cal.50. And not to forget the ceiling of 42000ft if you play without any alt restrictions. Excellent service rate of course too.

Hmm. Doesn't seem to make sense. As we all know planes like the Corsair and P38 ruled the Pacific for a reason.....anyway [;)]

PzB - congratulations on your victory. I have to be honest and think Andy has played very poorly here and handed you this but you had to take it and act proficiently which you did. Well done.


only judging from my PBEM, someone else probably will find out something totally different. [:D] But if you look at the stats of the P-47 and F4U then it´s no surprise that the P-47 is far superior. Faster, more durable, higher gun value, better service rating, better range, higher max alt. What else would you need?
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