When?

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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wworld7
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RE: When?

Post by wworld7 »

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
Really angry and frustrated with the misleading status reports. This license should be pulled and it should be assigned to a dev team that can deliver on it's promises.

Once again someone comes up with this absurd idea. There are no other dev teams that want to take this project on for the financial payoff at the end. You people living in fantasy land I hope wake up soon.

Threads like this just stir up peoples disappointment, they do nothing to hasten the completion of this project. I agree you have a right to express your frustration but in the end it is pointless and if anything hindlers rather than helps your goal.
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warspite1
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RE: When?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I was on these forums 2-3 years ago and said one person is unrealistic to get this project done.
The developer (Steve)--told me more people would slow him down. He asked me to repost the conversation because he didn't believe it and I did. The guy can't keep his story straight.

I got universally flamed by all the faboys on here by posting back then...

But here are a couple of thoughts.

1) A team is needed to do a project this big.
2) many people waiting for this project literally died waiting. The developer posted misleading reports about how far he was. Sorry, but two years ago, we were seeing posts "almost done". It wasn't almost done.
3) The developer spends way too much time on the forums here. I don't really care about how you are doing i your men's chorus. Sorry, I just don't.
4) The fanboys come on here and flame anyone who says the project is off track. Hey if you guys hadn't been such blind followers maybe the project would have been assigned to someone with the resources to actually get the job done.

Really angry and frustrated with the misleading status reports. This license should be pulled and it should be assigned to a dev team that can deliver on it's promises.

Warspite1

And so the same old refrain continues. I totally understand your frustration in waiting for this game, but how about you give us some answers instead of the benefit of your "thoughts".

Have you done all the various calculations for this enlarged development team? How big does it need to be? What is the trade-off in time and cost? With the new team in place, how much will this game cost Matrix to bring to the market vs the profit to be earned? You know for a fact do you that Matrix can afford such a budget (and that by definition, they are simply choosing not to spend that money - as one poster maintains)? You know the number of likely purchasers of the product? You know the economics do you? If so please, please stop just stating I want more, more, more but instead why not share the info with us.

So you think the license should be pulled and given to a development team that will throw the required money at the project to get it done quickly. Which companies will step in to the breach then? You know for a fact there are many such firms out there? They have a much bigger budget than Matrix do they - and importantly, do not mind making a loss on the game if development costs are too high? Please, name them, better still, tell ADG who they are and they can get the Matrix license revoked and this alternative developer - sorry development team - can get working straight away; should have the game by June - Simples!!

Please try and understand, those who you see as "blind followers" may just be ordinary folk who have a sense of proportion, a sense of balance, a life. They know that just because you want something, you don`t necessarily get it when you want it; sometimes we have to wait for things; that`s where the irritants in real life kick-in - you know profit and loss, shareholders etc.

Oh and by the way, stop with the "Fanboy" nonsense.


As a wise man once asked:

War - What is it good for?
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michaelbaldur
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RE: When?

Post by michaelbaldur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I was on these forums 2-3 years ago and said one person is unrealistic to get this project done.
The developer (Steve)--told me more people would slow him down. He asked me to repost the conversation because he didn't believe it and I did. The guy can't keep his story straight.

I got universally flamed by all the faboys on here by posting back then...

But here are a couple of thoughts.

1) A team is needed to do a project this big.
2) many people waiting for this project literally died waiting. The developer posted misleading reports about how far he was. Sorry, but two years ago, we were seeing posts "almost done". It wasn't almost done.
3) The developer spends way too much time on the forums here. I don't really care about how you are doing i your men's chorus. Sorry, I just don't.
4) The fanboys come on here and flame anyone who says the project is off track. Hey if you guys hadn't been such blind followers maybe the project would have been assigned to someone with the resources to actually get the job done.

Really angry and frustrated with the misleading status reports. This license should be pulled and it should be assigned to a dev team that can deliver on it's promises.

Warspite1

And so the same old refrain continues. I totally understand your frustration in waiting for this game, but how about you give us some answers instead of the benefit of your "thoughts".

Have you done all the various calculations for this enlarged development team? How big does it need to be? What is the trade-off in time and cost? With the new team in place, how much will this game cost Matrix to bring to the market vs the profit to be earned? You know for a fact do you that Matrix can afford such a budget (and that by definition, they are simply choosing not to spend that money - as one poster maintains)? You know the number of likely purchasers of the product? You know the economics do you? If so please, please stop just stating I want more, more, more but instead why not share the info with us.

So you think the license should be pulled and given to a development team that will throw the required money at the project to get it done quickly. Which companies will step in to the breach then? You know for a fact there are many such firms out there? They have a much bigger budget than Matrix do they - and importantly, do not mind making a loss on the game if development costs are too high? Please, name them, better still, tell ADG who they are and they can get the Matrix license revoked and this alternative developer - sorry development team - can get working straight away; should have the game by June - Simples!!

Please try and understand, those who you see as "blind followers" may just be ordinary folk who have a sense of proportion, a sense of balance, a life. They know that just because you want something, you don`t necessarily get it when you want it; sometimes we have to wait for things; that`s where the irritants in real life kick-in - you know profit and loss, shareholders etc.

Oh and by the way, stop with the "Fanboy" nonsense.



want I meant ...
the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com
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Joseignacio
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RE: When?

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: BumMcFluff

Well, it's been two years since I last checked in here to see when this dreadnought would be completed. I was roundly chastised for my lack of faith and my doubts etc. It's now two years later, and ... we're still waiting. But hey, who am I to complain? I certainly don't want to spark off another 'this is a big job' or 'maybe if you helped' or 'you don't know the difficulties' or whatever.

- Yes, it's a big job, bigger than anticipated, but so was fighting the actual war, and that only took six years (less if you're American, more if you're Japanese or Chinese).

- I don't help car manufacturers, plumbers or electricians either, because they're supposed to know what they're doing.

- No, I don't know the difficulties, but I don't explain the difficulties of my job to my clients, because it's not professional.

Oh well, see you in another two years. I expect I'll be bagged in my absence, but I would prefer the effort went into the game instead.

You will do your part, which is paying the game when and if you want to, the developers will end the game when they can. The rest is pure whinning.

If you cannot wait you can buy something else while you wait or instead of MWIF, which is what you can/would do if the contractor couldn't meet the dates in the real life.

You wouldn't (I hope) call every night the contractor asking him when he can go to your home/office and telling him how many workers he should get.[>:]
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: BumMcFluff

Well, it's been two years since I last checked in here to see when this dreadnought would be completed. I was roundly chastised for my lack of faith and my doubts etc. It's now two years later, and ... we're still waiting. But hey, who am I to complain? I certainly don't want to spark off another 'this is a big job' or 'maybe if you helped' or 'you don't know the difficulties' or whatever.

- Yes, it's a big job, bigger than anticipated, but so was fighting the actual war, and that only took six years (less if you're American, more if you're Japanese or Chinese).

- I don't help car manufacturers, plumbers or electricians either, because they're supposed to know what they're doing.

- No, I don't know the difficulties, but I don't explain the difficulties of my job to my clients, because it's not professional.

Oh well, see you in another two years. I expect I'll be bagged in my absence, but I would prefer the effort went into the game instead.

You will do your part, which is paying the game when and if you want to, the developers will end the game when they can. The rest is pure whinning.

If you cannot wait you can buy something else while you wait or instead of MWIF, which is what you can/would do if the contractor couldn't meet the dates in the real life.

You wouldn't (I hope) call every night the contractor asking him when he can go to your home/office and telling him how many workers he should get.[>:]
As always Jose your calmness in the face of apathy in the release of this game amazes me, that is a compliment not a dig, I always respect your opinion because it is never harsh as some posters are in defence of Matrix. Nothing us naysayers can say will change the outcome or the release of this game but the forums are for people with different opinions you may call it whining but I call it maximum frustration. What I would like to know is will this game ever be completed by Matrix? I am serious about that statement, not trying to start trouble or so called trolling, I would like to know from you posters your heartfelt opinions about whether this game will ever come to fruitation, not when but if ever.

Not trolling

Bo
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wworld7
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RE: When?

Post by wworld7 »

ORIGINAL: bo
As always Jose your calmness in the face of apathy in the release of this game amazes me, that is a compliment not a dig, I always respect your opinion because it is never harsh as some posters are in defence of Matrix. Nothing us naysayers can say will change the outcome or the release of this game but the forums are for people with different opinions you may call it whining but I call it maximum frustration. What I would like to know is will this game ever be completed by Matrix? I am serious about that statement, not trying to start trouble or so called trolling, I would like to know from you posters your heartfelt opinions about whether this game will ever come to fruitation, not when but if ever.

Not trolling

Bo

Bo,

I have tried to explain this in the past. Nothing is ever 100% sure until it is done. There are mulitple reasons this project could never reach completion. This is the same with any software package. I once worked for a company that had management so sure of itself that it thought it could create a business application better and cheaper in-house rather than modify an existing external package. Four and a half years later they waived the flag of surrender and bought an external package to modify. Among the costs besides the external package, 250 million (YES-1/4 of a billion), 3 CIO's replaced and tens of thousands of programming man-hours spent on failed attempt to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes it is not the lack of resources and it wasn't in this case (as these people had an unlimited budget (which hurt other departments)), in our case one thing they couldn't keep up with changing government regs (state & local), and it was a BAD idea starting out with. A non IT person directing the technology direction of a company sometimes works and sometimes it is just bad business...

Nobody, not even Steve, can say this will be finished until it is done. I've seen projects 90% completed die an ugly death because companies often change direction for numerous reasons.

That said, even with all the things that can prevent completion of this project, the plan (as far as I know) is to finish it, and finish it to the best degree possible. Of course this does not ease your frustration, but you will hate MWIF if it is pushed out the door early, and all the people venting their frustration will only have themselves to blame if ADG, Matrix and Steve give into such pressure (which I do no think will happen). But we have had that discussion before so no need to rehash it.

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composer99
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RE: When?

Post by composer99 »

- Yes, it's a big job, bigger than anticipated, but so was fighting the actual war, and that only took six years (less if you're American, more if you're Japanese or Chinese).


MWiF is being worked on by a single programmer, a handful of other paid types (graphics artist, Matrix project manager, etc.) and a few dozen volunteers (mostly the beta testers).

The real war was an effort of tens of millions of fighting men, and tens of millions more people working in the factories, mills, etc.

Your attempt to compare the two in terms of scale is ridiculous.

- I don't help car manufacturers, plumbers or electricians either, because they're supposed to know what they're doing.


No one is helping Steve do programming, which is what he is being paid to do.

Have you ever had a plumber in to fix a sink? Did you clean the cleaners, brushes, etc. out from under the sink beforehand? That's helping the plumber. Sure, you could just get him to do it, but it will take up some of his time and you might have to pay for it.


- No, I don't know the difficulties, but I don't explain the difficulties of my job to my clients, because it's not professional.


Funny, I deal with roofers on construction projects all the time, and I would find it unprofessional if they didn't tell me if they were having difficulties.

Frankly, the fact that Steve is keeping us all very informed on project progress, even when it hits rough patches such as this past winter, strikes me as being more professional, in terms of relations with the client base, than simply not saying anything and leaving us to wonder what is going on.

What's professional or not in your field does not translate universally.

Oh well, see you in another two years. I expect I'll be bagged in my absence, but I would prefer the effort went into the game instead.


No, you'll be ignored. [8|]
~ Composer99
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paulderynck
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RE: When?

Post by paulderynck »

ORIGINAL: bo

As always Jose your calmness in the face of apathy in the release of this game amazes me, that is a compliment not a dig, I always respect your opinion because it is never harsh as some posters are in defence of Matrix. Nothing us naysayers can say will change the outcome or the release of this game but the forums are for people with different opinions you may call it whining but I call it maximum frustration. What I would like to know is will this game ever be completed by Matrix? I am serious about that statement, not trying to start trouble or so called trolling, I would like to know from you posters your heartfelt opinions about whether this game will ever come to fruitation, not when but if ever.

Not trolling

Bo

I believe the game will be completed and published.
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warspite1
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RE: When?

Post by warspite1 »


[/quote]
What I would like to know is will this game ever be completed by Matrix? I am serious about that statement, not trying to start trouble or so called trolling, I would like to know from you posters your heartfelt opinions about whether this game will ever come to fruitation, not when but if ever.

Not trolling

Bo

[/quote] Warspite1

I have no idea how long this will take to finish and for this, I look forward to the monthly updates like everyone else. But yes, I truly believe MWIF will be completed - if I did not, there is no way in the world I would waste my time helping on the project.
As a wise man once asked:

War - What is it good for?
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Anendrue
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RE: When?

Post by Anendrue »

I also believe the game will be completed and released. In fact it will be released when it is done and not a day sooner. [;)]
Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

What I would like to know is will this game ever be completed by Matrix? I am serious about that statement, not trying to start trouble or so called trolling, I would like to know from you posters your heartfelt opinions about whether this game will ever come to fruitation, not when but if ever.

Not trolling

Bo

[/quote] Warspite1

I have no idea how long this will take to finish and for this, I look forward to the monthly updates like everyone else. But yes, I truly believe MWIF will be completed - if I did not, there is no way in the world I would waste my time helping on the project.
[/quote]
I did not know you were working on this project, honestly, appreciate your effort and thank you for some reassurance.

Bo
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: abj9562

I also believe the game will be completed and released. In fact it will be released when it is done and not a day sooner. [;)]

Ah come on ABJ not one day sooner[:'(]
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

Thank you Flipper for your insight see we can each express our views without animosity about this endeavour [not referring to you] and I will try to keep my opinions to myself for a couple of months [8|] maybe.

Bo
yesman68
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RE: When?

Post by yesman68 »

Here's a question:  How much of Steve's time are we wasting discussing how he uses his time?  Does anyone else see the irony here.  Let the man work on the game folks, rather than wasting time responding to these non-essential comments.  [8|]


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wworld7
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RE: When?

Post by wworld7 »

ORIGINAL: bo

Thank you Flipper for your insight see we can each express our views without animosity about this endeavour [not referring to you] and I will try to keep my opinions to myself for a couple of months [8|] maybe.

Bo

Bo,

We're cool. Hey, nothing we can do but wait. As for people having animosity, just let it slide off like water. This is all about a game and not worth getting upset. I get frustrated like everyone else, but what gets me about MWIF is people who have no clue as to the details of the contract and/or the actual market for the game saying "oh, this is the way it should have been done". Without these critical details (or facts if you perfer): it is only people who don't know trying to sound like they know better (which is silly).
Flipper
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: yesman68

Here's a question:  How much of Steve's time are we wasting discussing how he uses his time?  Does anyone else see the irony here.  Let the man work on the game folks, rather than wasting time responding to these non-essential comments.  [8|]


I know better than to post this but what the hell. Non-essential comments huh! One thing is clear with 12 posts in three years you dont respond to much anyway[:D] I thought the name of this thread was WHEN, I did not start WHEN but I like to comment on it once in a while WHEN I like to or WHEN something is annoying me. Everybody who takes time out of their busy lives to read posts of WHEN have the right by birth of being a US citizen to comment on what WHEN means When they want to. What the hell am I talking about Flipper[&:]

Bo
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wworld7
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RE: When?

Post by wworld7 »

ORIGINAL: bo

What the hell am I talking about Flipper[&:]

Bo

It is too late at night for any dolphin to figure this out...[8|][8|][8|]
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HansHafen
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RE: When?

Post by HansHafen »

Game will be completed and published.
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Anendrue
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RE: When?

Post by Anendrue »

There are many people working on this project. Yes Steve is the programmer, project lead, coordinator, manager, jack of all trades and master of MANY! Some of the groups and people behind him are the following:
  • Matrix Games
  • ADG
  • Numerous volunteers doing extensive work on this project. Some disclosed and some not disclosed. Some of these people are under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and can't say much if anything.
  • Dozens of Beta Testers (past and present). All under NDA's too.
If I had to take my best guess based on all the contributors publicly talked about; I would place the overall number (excluding Matrix and ADG) in the range of 15-40 active participants.
Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.
JonBrave
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RE: When?

Post by JonBrave »

OOI, in what capacity are ADG involved?
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