subs in the early game

[Bluebook]

In my first learning game against the AI I have dispatched 10-something subs to interdict shipping between Formosa and the PI. My subs have been very successful. In fact, Im starting to wonder if they are too successful. These are the sub attacks in one day.

Now, granted, I could have been lucky to have my subs positioned in the exactly right spot, and this could be a factor of poor AI-use of ASW escorts. Thoughts, opinions?

Also, I have had two subs commit suicide by attacking transports on the surface, only to be hit by some crappy old gun on the xAK.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 41
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ASW attack near Hengchun at 84,68

Japanese Ships
E Tsuta

Allied Ships
SS Sargo



Sargo diving deep ....
E Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
E Tsuta attacking submerged sub ....
E Tsuta attacking submerged sub ....
E Tsuta fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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Submarine attack near Hengchun at 85,68

Japanese Ships
xAK Hukuzyu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Searaven



SS Searaven is sighted by xAK Hukuzyu Maru
SS Searaven launches 4 torpedoes


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Submarine attack near Laoag at 81,71

Japanese Ships
xAK Sugiyama Maru

Allied Ships
SS S-37



SS S-37 is sighted by xAK Sugiyama Maru
SS S-37 launches 4 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Soc Trang at 56,75

Japanese Ships
xAK Chihaya Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS KXVII

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



SS KXVII is sighted by xAK Chihaya Maru
SS KXVII launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Chihaya Maru


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Submarine attack near Laoag at 82,70

Japanese Ships
xAK Ryuun Maru, Shell hits 12, on fire

Allied Ships
SS S-37, hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled



SS S-37 is sighted by xAK Ryuun Maru
SS S-37 attacking on the surface


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Laoag at 82,70

Japanese Ships
xAK Hiyama Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS S-37



SS S-37 is sighted by xAK Hiyama Maru
SS S-37 launches 4 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kota Bharu at 54,75

Japanese Ships
xAKL Kashi Maru

Allied Ships
SS KXVII



SS KXVII is sighted by xAKL Kashi Maru
SS KXVII launches 2 torpedoes at xAKL Kashi Maru


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Laoag at 81,71

Japanese Ships
DMS W-11
SC Ch 12
SC Ch 4
DMS W-18
DMS W-10
xAK Takao Maru
PB Kyo Maru #13
PB Kyo Maru #12
SC Ch 18
SC Ch 17

Allied Ships
SS S-36, hits 1



SS S-36 launches 4 torpedoes at DMS W-11
S-36 diving deep ....
PB Kyo Maru #13 fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Kyo Maru #12 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC Ch 18 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC Ch 17 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 17 attacking submerged sub ....
SC Ch 17 attacking submerged sub ....
SC Ch 17 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Batan Island at 87,70

Japanese Ships
xAK Hokutai Maru

Allied Ships
SS Permit



SS Permit is sighted by xAK Hokutai Maru
SS Permit launches 2 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Hengchun at 84,67

Japanese Ships
xAK Tohuku Maru

Allied Ships
SS Spearfish



SS Spearfish is sighted by xAK Tohuku Maru
SS Spearfish launches 4 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Hengchun at 85,68

Japanese Ships
xAK Argun Maru, Shell hits 5

Allied Ships
SS Sargo, hits 3



SS Sargo is sighted by xAK Argun Maru
SS Sargo attacking on the surface
Jacobs, T.D. decides to submerge SS Sargo due to damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kompong Trach at 55,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Kokai Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS KXII

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)



SS KXII is sighted by xAK Kokai Maru
SS KXII launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Kokai Maru


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kompong Trach at 55,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Nissyu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS KXII

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



SS KXII is sighted by xAK Nissyu Maru
SS KXII launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Nissyu Maru


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kompong Trach at 55,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Tazan Maru, Torpedo hits 1

Allied Ships
SS KXII, hits 2

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)



SS KXII is sighted by xAK Tazan Maru
SS KXII attacking on the surface


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Hengchun at 85,68

Japanese Ships
xAK Argun Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Spearfish, hits 1



SS Spearfish is sighted by xAK Argun Maru
SS Spearfish attacking on the surface
Pryce, R.F. decides to submerge SS Spearfish due to damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Iriomote at 88,67

Japanese Ships
xAK Hukuzyu Maru, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Searaven



SS Searaven is sighted by xAK Hukuzyu Maru
SS Searaven launches 4 torpedoes




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Vigan at 80,73

Japanese Ships
DMS W-10
SC Ch 16
SC Ch 5
DMS W-18
DMS W-11
xAK Bunzan Maru
PB Kyo Maru #13
PB Kyo Maru #12
SC Ch 18
SC Ch 17

Allied Ships
SS S-39



SS S-39 launches 4 torpedoes at DMS W-10
S-39 bottoming out ....
PB Kyo Maru #13 fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Kyo Maru #12 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 18 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC Ch 17 fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Kyo Maru #12 attacking submerged sub ....
PB Kyo Maru #12 attacking submerged sub ....
PB Kyo Maru #12 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Laoag at 82,70

Japanese Ships
xAK Tyoko Maru, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS S-36

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled



SS S-36 is sighted by xAK Tyoko Maru
SS S-36 launches 4 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Vigan at 80,73

Japanese Ships
xAKL Hinode Maru #20
PB Akitsui Maru

Allied Ships
SS S-39, hits 1



S-39 bottoming out ....
PB Akitsui Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Akitsui Maru attacking submerged sub ....
PB Akitsui Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Akitsui Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Vigan at 80,73

Japanese Ships
xAK Ryuun Maru, heavy fires

Allied Ships
SS S-39



SS S-39 is sighted by xAK Ryuun Maru
SS S-39 launches 4 torpedoes

[Bluebook]

One more thing. I remember reading something in an ancient thread on subs that in real life after the war broke out, most/all of the subs stationed at Manilla immideately went to Perth or some other distant port, and only after that did they return to "normal" war-time patrols.

Am I remembering this correctly?

[alanschu]

I think they also went to Surabaya for a little bit, before falling back to Perth.

[John Lansford]

Many of the subs from Manila deployed north to stop any expected landings, but they were captained by very cautious skippers trained in something called a 'sonar attack'.  The thinking was that the newfangled magnetic exploders, coupled with sonar bearings, would allow the subs to fire accurately at targets without any chance of being detected.
 
Clay Blair Jr., in Silent Victory, describes many of these subs attempting sonar attacks, and of course being completely ineffective.  In my game, the sub captains are far too aggressive, surfacing to shell targets, making surfaced torpedo attacks, etc.  Sargo's captain fired every torpedo he had while surfaced at a cargo ship near Wake Island, and when they all failed to explode he shelled the ship with his deck gun until it ran out of ammo, then closed to machine gun it.  I've since ordered him back to Pearl since he was either insane or suicidally aggressive; his sub took more than a dozen 8.8cm hits during this little fight...

[Fishbed]

And now you're gonna punish him for being too much of a hero? baaah! [:-] [:(]

[:D]

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

And now you're gonna punish him for being too much of a hero? baaah! [:-] [:(]

[:D]

He didn't sink the transport and unnecessarily endangered his ship and crew. Besides, he was completely out of ammo and had a shot up boat.

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

And now you're gonna punish him for being too much of a hero? baaah! [:-] [:(]

[:D]

He didn't sink the transport and unnecessarily endangered his ship and crew. Besides, he was completely out of ammo and had a shot up boat.

Sounds to me you should appoint Lockwood to COMSUBPAC and shoot some people from the Bureau of Ordinance so they can make those damn torpedoes work! This brave soldier wouldn't have tried desperate measures if his torpedoes had done their job right!

[Avenger]

ROFL. This was really good to wake up to over a morning coffee.

[sfbaytf]

I'm getting different results in my campaign game. So far my torpedo dud rate is well over 70%. Many of my commanders have resorted to attacking on the surface. A couple have been damaged by return fire.

[scott64]

I had one sub S-36 torp a transport, then surface to fire the deck gun, then submerge and fire another torp [X(][:'(][:D]

[John Lansford]

I do like seeing the "hit-dud impact" report, quickly followed by the explosion of a 2nd or 3rd torpedo in the salvo working as expected, though.  Too bad it doesn't happen often enough.
 
One of my Dutch subs penetrated Davao harbor and had a Fuso class BB in his crosshairs, and got the "torpedoes don't explode" report.  Another Dutch sub had Kaga dead to rights and got the "dud impact" report (this time with no improved explosion following it though).  Arghhh!

[Sardaukar]

"S-38 fails to launch torpedoes due to mechanical failure"..I thought that was quite good.

[scott64]

My favorite is

Previous report of sinking of SS S-36 incorrect. Ship sighted and engaged at 79, 77 [:D][:'(] This was the second time in three days.

[WingedIncubus]

To OP:

Are you sure you are playing with Reliable USN Torpedoes Off?

Because for my part most of my torpedoes attack miss or hit without explosion, as it should be with the infamous early-WWII version of Mark 14 torpedo ordnance within the Silent Service.

[Bluebook]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

To OP:

Are you sure you are playing with Reliable USN Torpedoes Off?

Yes, of cource. The S-class are not affected by the faulty torpedoes though...