AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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pad152
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AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by pad152 »

1. If a level 6 port can only dock 84,000 tons, does that mean is can only (base i.e. dock) 84,000 tons of ships?

2. Do ships base based (i.e. docked not in a task force) at a level 6 port affect the loading/unloading of other task forces there?

3. Is there something in the ship/task force screen that shows the total tonnage of ships?



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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

ORIGINAL: pad152

1. If a level 6 port can only dock 84,000 tons, does that mean is can only (base i.e. dock) 84,000 tons of ships?
yes docking limit of 84k means docking limit 84k
2. Do ships base based (i.e. docked not in a task force) at a level 6 port affect the loading/unloading of other task forces there?
Depends on what you mean by "based". TF that are loading / unloading do affect other TF which are loading / unloading regardless of docked or undocked status.
3. Is there something in the ship/task force screen that shows the total tonnage of ships?
Yes, there is also a lot of stuff in the manual about this! In fact Don has my approval to post some of that here if he is so inclined.
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pad152
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by pad152 »

1. Let's say at a level 6 port, I have the following ships there, 1CA, 1CL, 8DD (ships docked not in a task force). Do they count against the 84,000 ton limit, if new task force arrives and tries to unload (TF - 3 AKs, 3AP arrives and unloads).


2. Does the 84,000 ton limit based on all ships in port or only against ships/TF's loading/unloading?





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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

We will post some stuff from the manual that will help answer these questions - but one component to the answer is that docking limits are not the same as loading/unloading limits - docking limits are docking limits.

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

Hopefully this will answer some of your questions (and of course generate another dozen "follow-up" questions [:D] )



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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by IndyShark »

Does that mean a BB or CV can't dock and refuel at a size 4 ports if they are over 24,000 tons?
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by pad152 »

Makes more sense, now the questions![:D]

Total Ships docked in port == Total tonnage of ships docked in port (not number of ships)?

If you exceed the total ship tons docked in port, do you get any indication which ships are docked in port and which are sitting in anchorage (easier targets for attacks)?

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

One thing to keep in mind - for AE we decided to implement some "Port Restrictions" - which were not much implemented in stock.

Among other things - this meant that it would be harder to load and unload - meaning it would take longer to load or unload - especially at smaller ports - and that it would be harder to rearm and refuel and smaller ports as well.

Now in our testing there has been a lot of hollering about these restrictions. Interestingly everyone on the team wanted more realistic restrictions - but when we put them in basically everyone (including me! [:D] ) hollered about these new restrictions!

So we wanted our cake - and we wanted to eat it too. Shame on us. More restrictions means more restrictions - this means you cannot do the things in AE that you can do in stock. Your ports are much more important in AE than they were in stock.

Now, because of all the hollering, a number of "compromises" have been made which back off from the harsh (uh realistic) restrictions we had oh 9 months ago - but - we have still not just removed all the restrictions - things are still tougher than stock in terms of loading / unloading / fueling / rearming ... especially at smaller ports.

But as an example, any TF can refuel at a level-5 or better port - even if it cannot dock - even if it has ships that cannot dock. We assume a level-5 port has sufficient port craft to move the fuel around in the port and refuel the ships. Note that this capacility existed in a level-1 port in stock. It exists in AE but at level-5, not level-1. So your level-5 ports are golden when it comes to refueling.

I'm happy to answer more questions - and maybe John and Don (the naval team designer and implementor respectively of these systems) can jump in and help me out - but to fully understand the new port systems - you will need to wait and get the game - read the manual - play the game - and get used to how it works. I doubt we could fully explain it here in the time available - and to really understand how to use it - you need to use it anyway.

After I got used to it - I liked it - I think it is so much more realistic than stock.

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by IndyShark »

I agree. That's much more realistic than refueling the Yamato at a size 1 port. As you point out, size 5 ports will be very important!
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by rogueusmc »

So you can still disband 300 ships at Wake? Why no restrictions on this?
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

Many things are different - many things are SAIEW - this one is SAIEW. Actually I think we had this restricted further at one point many moons back - but there was too much hollering so we moved this one back to SAIEW.
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by Yamato hugger »

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

So you can still disband 300 ships at Wake? Why no restrictions on this?

Actually in this regard AE goes even further out. You dont even need a size 3 port to disband anymore. You can disband anywhere (which makes it easy to hide from sneaky allied carrier TFs strolling through the Gilberts [:D]
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by pad152 »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

So you can still disband 300 ships at Wake? Why no restrictions on this?

Actually in this regard AE goes even further out. You dont even need a size 3 port to disband anymore. You can disband anywhere (which makes it easy to hide from sneaky allied carrier TFs strolling through the Gilberts [:D]


Please Explain - That sounds gamey as hell!

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by Yamato hugger »

Nothing to explain. Anything you could disband at a level 3 port in WitP you can disband at any friendly controlled port regardless of size.
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by pad152 »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Nothing to explain. Anything you could disband at a level 3 port in WitP you can disband at any friendly controlled port regardless of size.

But why?[:D]

Is disband something different in AE than in WITP?

Dispanded ships in WITP got some benefits for repairs (stopping flood damage, reduce fires, etc.), same in AE?

Why would you disband a CV task force at a level 0 or level 1 port?

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by jwilkerson »

One thing to keep in mind is that in WITP and in AE there is no differentiation between the concept of an "anchorage" and a "port".

A geographical location like Majuro Atoll - or Eniwetok - might have a huge anchorage that can offer some protection from the Ocean swell - but there might be no port there at all - not even a dilapidated fishing pier. So we can assume that a disbanded fleet might be in the anchorage regardless of the presence of a port.

One day, a different game could represent both ideas separately. Anchorage capacity is one thing - port capacity is something else. These concepts are not separate in WITP or AE - they are more abstract - rather than less.

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
So you can still disband 300 ships at Wake? Why no restrictions on this?
Actually, Lee, that’s the $64,000 question. Darn, you must be a Marine.

Disbanding a TF means the TF anchors. Understand that lots of ports don’t have holding grounds for a gazillion ships, but these are 40nm hexes, and most do, so there it is. Just think Ulithi – Port = squat, but the whole PacFlt can anchor.

Ports now have capability. A gazillion boats can drop the hook in harbor, but can they do their deed – just think Noumea with 37 ships in the roads for 4 months, waiting for a space at the pier.

Please ignore. Going away now.
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by rogueusmc »

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

One thing to keep in mind is that in WITP and in AE there is no differentiation between the concept of an "anchorage" and a "port".

A geographical location like Majuro Atoll - or Eniwetok - might have a huge anchorage that can offer some protection from the Ocean swell - but there might be no port there at all - not even a dilapidated fishing pier. So we can assume that a disbanded fleet might be in the anchorage regardless of the presence of a port.

One day, a different game could represent both ideas separately. Anchorage capacity is one thing - port capacity is something else. These concepts are not separate in WITP or AE - they are more abstract - rather than less.

Now that makes more sense...thank you.
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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by rogueusmc »

ORIGINAL: JWE
ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
So you can still disband 300 ships at Wake? Why no restrictions on this?
Actually, Lee, that’s the $64,000 question. Darn, you must be a Marine.

Disbanding a TF means the TF anchors. Understand that lots of ports don’t have holding grounds for a gazillion ships, but these are 40nm hexes, and most do, so there it is. Just think Ulithi – Port = squat, but the whole PacFlt can anchor.

Ports now have capability. A gazillion boats can drop the hook in harbor, but can they do their deed – just think Noumea with 37 ships in the roads for 4 months, waiting for a space at the pier.

Please ignore. Going away now.
lol...I try to not do anything in the game that COULDN'T be done in real life...not everyone does...

Dec 7th starts a ramp up...on the west coast for example, I don't start more than two AKs loading each port, each day...then this doubles after a week...then doubles a week later...I just don't figure that the San Fransisco started loading 200 ships the following morning of the attack on Dec 7th. There had to be a period in which stuff like this ramped up.

It would be nice to have real world restrictions but I couldn't program it. I take what y'all come up with and enjoy in my own style.

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RE: AE Port Size & Ship/TF tons

Post by ny59giants »

So 100 ships disbanded in a size 1 port means a BB TF can come by and have free target practice (if they know they are there). OUCH!!
 
But only what the screenshot from the manual done by Joe can use the port (size 1) to load and unload as long as they are less than those restrictions. OK, I "think" I have some understanding of this.  
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