Behind Closed Doors

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Joe D.
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Behind Closed Doors

Post by Joe D. »

Has anyone seen the new PBS series re the "Big 3" in WW II called "Behind Closed Doors"?
If you did, what did you think of it?
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by vonRocko »

Yes I've been watching. From what I've seen and books I have read, it seems to present the facts quite well. I see no political bias or morality lessons.Very enjoyable!
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by E »

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Has anyone seen ... called "Behind Closed Doors"?

No, but I remember the Charlie Rich(?) song of that title.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Joe D. »

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Yes I've been watching. From what I've seen and books I have read, it seems to present the facts quite well. I see no political bias or morality lessons.Very enjoyable!

Yes, the accounts seem to be accurate, the actors convincing, and I learn even more than I knew before.

The History Channel used to make shows like this.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Jeffrey H. »

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Has anyone seen ... called "Behind Closed Doors"?

No, but I remember the Charlie Rich(?) song of that title.

But when we get be-hind closed doors...... Great song.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Hanal »

When PBS shows Behind the Green Door, let me know.......
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Charles2222 »

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Has anyone seen the new PBS series re the "Big 3" in WW II called "Behind Closed Doors"?
If you did, what did you think of it?
I seen the first installment. It was surprising that they would go ahead and admit that both Stalin and Molotov signed a document which ordered the Katyn massacre possible, and that it in fact was carried out by the USSR and not the Germans. It also confirmed what I had suspected, that France and Great Britain both agreed to defend Poland from all attackers, so naturally they turned a blind eye to the USSR doing it, I guess, because they considered prospects for victory against the USSR impossible (the documentary did elaborate on that a bit), and it would likely team germany and them more closely together. I guess only had germany and the USSR both invaded France would they had bothered with the USSR.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Hanal »

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Has anyone seen the new PBS series re the "Big 3" in WW II called "Behind Closed Doors"?
If you did, what did you think of it?
I seen the first installment. It was surprising that they would go ahead and admit that both Stalin and Molotov signed a document which ordered the Katyn massacre possible, and that it in fact was carried out by the USSR and not the Germans. It also confirmed what I had suspected, that France and Great Britain both agreed to defend Poland from all attackers, so naturally they turned a blind eye to the USSR doing it, I guess, because they considered prospects for victory against the USSR impossible (the documentary did elaborate on that a bit), and it would likely team germany and them more closely together. I guess only had germany and the USSR both invaded France would they had bothered with the USSR.

Charles, since I did not see the show I am wondering who the "they" were in admitting that the Russians were behind Katyn? This has been public knowledge for decades so I'm simply trying to understand what you were surprised about? Thanks....
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Charles2222 »

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Has anyone seen the new PBS series re the "Big 3" in WW II called "Behind Closed Doors"?
If you did, what did you think of it?
I seen the first installment. It was surprising that they would go ahead and admit that both Stalin and Molotov signed a document which ordered the Katyn massacre possible, and that it in fact was carried out by the USSR and not the Germans. It also confirmed what I had suspected, that France and Great Britain both agreed to defend Poland from all attackers, so naturally they turned a blind eye to the USSR doing it, I guess, because they considered prospects for victory against the USSR impossible (the documentary did elaborate on that a bit), and it would likely team germany and them more closely together. I guess only had germany and the USSR both invaded France would they had bothered with the USSR.

Charles, since I did not see the show I am wondering who the "they" were in admitting that the Russians were behind Katyn? This has been public knowledge for decades so I'm simply trying to understand what you were surprised about? Thanks....
I'm surprised PBS admitted it. It sounded like an USSR act to me too, before I heard this broadcast. This was little more than public speculation before the supposed fall of communism in the 90's. The Germans blamed the USSR, while the USSR said the Germans did it.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Tomus »

This was on the BBC a while ago and is excellent. The stuff Stalin says to his generals is hilarious.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

I'm a little surprised at their direct and frank handling of Roosevelt. It's hard to watch the program and not come away thinking that he was in the tank with the communists. He's definitely portrayed as being more interested in accommodating Stalin than Churchill. If he'd finished out his fourth term, there would have been a backlash against his support for Stalin in places like Poland. I really regret that he didn't live long enough to be discredited.

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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Yogi the Great »

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

I'm a little surprised at their direct and frank handling of Roosevelt. It's hard to watch the program and not come away thinking that he was in the tank with the communists. He's definitely portrayed as being more interested in accommodating Stalin than Churchill. If he'd finished out his fourth term, there would have been a backlash against his support for Stalin in places like Poland. I really regret that he didn't live long enough to be discredited.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

Well Prince, I hope this doesn't get too political. I will just say that I agree that he should be discredited in many ways, not just from a war standpoint or "alliance" with the Russian system. Unfortunately we are currently seeing it all happen again. When will we learn?
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Greybriar »

I didn't see the PBS show, but I am reading Traitor to His Class by H.W. Brands. The book does not indicate that Roosevelt was "in the tank with the communists" at all. According to it, he was trying to keep Russia in the fight against Hitler.

But I suppose there will always be as many versions of history as there are historians to write about it.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by anarchyintheuk »

Generally liked it, but I got a little tired of the "I'm shocked, shocked to find bad deeds by the Allied leadership" refrain throughout the series. The producers were happy enough to show how the WAllies sold out Poland, but they weren't too forthcoming on possible alternatives to it. Likewise about the WAllies ignoring the Katyn forest.

Agreed with Tomus. Stalin had pretty basic and effective ideas about man management and motivation. Loved his pep talk to the oil minister who had to take charge of the production/demolition in the Caucasus during Case Blue (i.e. if you blow up the wells too soon, I'll kill you; if you blow them up too late, I'll kill you).
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Arctic Blast »

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

I'm a little surprised at their direct and frank handling of Roosevelt. It's hard to watch the program and not come away thinking that he was in the tank with the communists. He's definitely portrayed as being more interested in accommodating Stalin than Churchill. If he'd finished out his fourth term, there would have been a backlash against his support for Stalin in places like Poland. I really regret that he didn't live long enough to be discredited.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

From the things I've read, a lot of Roosevelt's dealings with Stalin were colored by his belief that he could 'control' Stalin. Also, Josef was seen as an ally against returning to the Empire system after the war was over.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Charles2222 »

I saw what I believe was the last installment tonight, though I must had missed a middle one. I was surprised, even had I missed the middle one(s) that I still saw no mention of Poltava in the last installment. I am also surprised that this series focused so deeply on the backstabbing of Poland by the allies. Like I said, France and England turned a blind eye to the USSR invading Poland when they guaranteed the defense of Poland, and then at the end of the war stabbed them in the back again by giving the eastern half of Poland to the USSR. The USA, was self-centered enough to ignore USSR takeover of Poland because they wanted the USSR to sign up to fight Japan.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Chijohnaok2 »

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

ORIGINAL: Charles_22



I seen the first installment. It was surprising that they would go ahead and admit that both Stalin and Molotov signed a document which ordered the Katyn massacre possible, and that it in fact was carried out by the USSR and not the Germans. It also confirmed what I had suspected, that France and Great Britain both agreed to defend Poland from all attackers, so naturally they turned a blind eye to the USSR doing it, I guess, because they considered prospects for victory against the USSR impossible (the documentary did elaborate on that a bit), and it would likely team germany and them more closely together. I guess only had germany and the USSR both invaded France would they had bothered with the USSR.

Charles, since I did not see the show I am wondering who the "they" were in admitting that the Russians were behind Katyn? This has been public knowledge for decades so I'm simply trying to understand what you were surprised about? Thanks....
I'm surprised PBS admitted it. It sounded like an USSR act to me too, before I heard this broadcast. This was little more than public speculation before the supposed fall of communism in the 90's. The Germans blamed the USSR, while the USSR said the Germans did it.

Charles_22:

Here is a press release by TASS (Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union) on April 14, 1990 in which responsibility was blamed on "Beria, Merkulov & their apprentices".
http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0 ... 0%B4%D0%B0

A translated copy via AltaVista Babelfish says:
At the encounters between the representatives of Soviet and Polish management, in the wide circles of community long time rises a question about the explanation of the circumstances of the loss of Polish officers, [internirovannykh] in September 1939. The historians of two countries carried out thorough studies of Katyn tragedy, including the search for documents.

Most recently by Soviet archivist and historians discovered some documents about the Polish soldiers, who were contained in by Kozelsk, old-linen yarnSKOhm, [Ostashkovskom] the camps of the NKVD of the USSR. It follows that from them in April - May 1940 from approximately 15 thousand Polish officers, who were being contained in these three camps, 394 people were transferred into The [gryazovetskiy] camp. However, major portion “is transmitted at the disposal” management of the NKVD respectively on the Smolensk, Voroshilovgrad and Kalinin district and nowhere more in the statistical reports to the NKVD it is mentioned.

The revealed archive materials in their totality make it possible to make a conclusion about direct responsibility for crimes in the Katyn Forest of Beria, Merkulov and their apprentices.

Soviet side, expressing deep regret in connection with the Katyn tragedy, it declares, that it presents one of the violent crimes of Stalinism.


The copies of the obtained documents are transmitted to Polish side. The search for archive materials continues.

Source - “http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0 ... 0%B4%D0%B0
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by 06 Maestro »

The International Red Cross was shown the scene of the massacre very shortly after the Germans discovered it. The results of the Red Cross investigation were clear; the USSR had committed mass murder. There could not have been any serious doubt in London or Washington about who was guilty, but they had to support good Uncle Joe.

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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by sapper_astro »

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

I saw what I believe was the last installment tonight, though I must had missed a middle one. I was surprised, even had I missed the middle one(s) that I still saw no mention of Poltava in the last installment. I am also surprised that this series focused so deeply on the backstabbing of Poland by the allies. Like I said, France and England turned a blind eye to the USSR invading Poland when they guaranteed the defense of Poland, and then at the end of the war stabbed them in the back again by giving the eastern half of Poland to the USSR. The USA, was self-centered enough to ignore USSR takeover of Poland because they wanted the USSR to sign up to fight Japan.

If we want, we could head a little further back in time and see the Polish stab the Czechs in the back... couple of nice provinces they ripped from the Czech corpse. Germany was happy for them to temporarily take care of them. The silly Poles fell for that one, thinking they could dine with old Adolf[;)].

Poland was gone, it was only a matter of time. The one chance they really had was to sign up with the Russians before the German attack, as this was the prerequisite for the Russians joining the WA at the time (though the WA stuffed up numerous times before where the Russians had thrown themselves at them for an alliance). Another option they could have taken was invoking the little entente, backing the Czechs to the hilt, along with Rumania and Yugoslavia, and forcing the Germans to attack them in 1938. This would have forced the WA to get involved. The Germans would have gotten a rude shock facing even just Czechoslovakia (who had a better army, airforce and defensive positions than Poland) and Poland on the Eastern front, in 1938.

They didn't, the war turned nastier, bigger issues came into play. Ultimately, while the Poles did not get the most brilliant deal from the WA, they also have themselves to blame on a number of issues for the outcome.
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RE: Behind Closed Doors

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
Ultimately, while the Poles did not get the most brilliant deal from the WA, they also have themselves to blame on a number of issues for the outcome.

If that's the case, then the Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, and all the others got what they had coming from the Reds as well, a bullet in the back of the head for the braver amongst them, and gonorrhea for the women.
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