Leader Casualty ???

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The Captain
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24 pm

Leader Casualty ???

Post by The Captain »

This one seems to get a different answer depending on who you ask so......
Is leader casualty random???

It seems the consensus is that the senior leader bites the bullet every time.
Can some one please confirm this either way soon as we have a PBEM game ready to play and are just waiting on the answer before we set options.

thanks
The Captain
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Marshall Ellis
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Marshall Ellis »

It should be random.
Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


The Captain
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by The Captain »

So if you have Napoleon and 5 other leaders does the program;

a-choose a leader casualty and then choose which one of the 6 leaders get it
or

b- EVERY leader at the battle has a chance to die
or

c- Only the commanding leader has a chance to die ?

thanks
The Captain
Taijian
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Taijian »

ORIGINAL: The 1.06 Manual

13.8.4 Leader Casualties (Optional)
After the completion of a field, trivial, or naval combat, each side with a leader or leaders present, is
checked to see if any became casualties in the combat by choosing a random number, 1 through 6.
Receiving a random number of "6" indicates a leader casualty. If a casualty is indicated, the program
randomly chooses a leader counter from among those present (if more than one is present) and chooses
another random number, 1 through 6, for the chosen leader. If the random number is a "6", the leader
casualty is "killed" and taken permanently from the game. On any other result, the leader casualty is
"wounded" and taken from the map for a number of complete months equal to the random number.

I read this to mean that a) is the correct answer.
The Captain
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by The Captain »

Thanks a lot Taijian and Marshall that clears up a prickly one [:)]
Game 5 vetoed leader casualty because the players believed it only applied to the senior leader.

I hope Game 7 now adopts it when it starts. So Taijan are you voting to include Leader casualty [&o]

regards
The Captain
bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

Just did a test.
6 Austrian corps+ John+Charles (B)
And 3 Prussian corps lead by Hoenloehe (B) Lend to Austria.
Allies at Freiburg.
France attacks with full force, Napoleon and his 6 other leaders.
First bug : Hoenloehe gets command ?............

Aprox 30 battles 2 times casulties happen... BTw if you wanna speed test, have 1 side guard commit first round, i didnt have it set :(
Think next time, i would just have Austria+French forces and use the Austrian 3 leaders, and gd-commitment.
Took bit over 1 hour to test, due to alot of battles going more than 1 day. But was fun esc attack vs esc counter attack, like 100+ factors lost battles.(dropped using pursuit for speed).

3.battle attemp
Leader casulty. as i asmued Hoenloehe "Allied leader" gets wounded.(
27. battle attemp
Leader castulty this time its Napoleon who gets wounded.


What are the odds ?
Napoleon is like 1/7, and Hoenloehe 1/3.
No casulties rolled for any other leader.

Following EIA the choise should be "A", but the game seems to run "C".


Regards
Bresh
NeverMan
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by NeverMan »

Testing would be a lot easier and quicker if the API was exposed, providing the robustness of the code is good. Either way, Marshall should be running unit tests like this on his code before it even goes to the testers, I'd be curious to see if he is in fact doing that.
The Captain
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by The Captain »

Ok so we are back to where we started .... sort of[&:]

To summarise.... the game is "meant" to have leader casualties in a total random fashion, however due to a bug in the program this doesn't happen.[:@]

Correct ?

The Captain
bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

ORIGINAL: The Captain

Ok so we are back to where we started .... sort of[&:]

To summarise.... the game is "meant" to have leader casualties in a total random fashion, however due to a bug in the program this doesn't happen.[:@]

Correct ?

The Captain

Well, its what asume.
Like i asumed, it didnt do random hits, but always the Army-leader.(Beside the buggy selection of who was to Lead 6Aus/3Pr taking Hoenloehe over Charles, both B-leaders and Austria even having the majority of corps.
But if im incorrect, im surprised my own test turned out as it did.
I do encourage others to test. I did test using 1.05.05.

Regards
Bresh
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pzgndr
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by pzgndr »

Aprox 30 battles 2 times casulties happen...

This sample size is insufficient to determine if there is a bug or not.
Bill Macon
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Aprox 30 battles 2 times casulties happen...

This sample size is insufficient to determine if there is a bug or not.

I just continued till i had castulties in 2 battles, and documented this.
The odds of it happening twice with the same result beeing the Army-leader is pretty low, if it was random leader in each stack.
I spend aprox 1 hour testing, but as i wrote this could be speeded up,
feel free to test yourself.
My test, just indicates it seems not to work propper.


Regards
Bresh
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Marshall Ellis
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Marshall Ellis »

Do you have the game where "Hoe" gets command ??? I would like to see that one if you have it?
The leader cas should be random but I am playing 4 test games today and will dbl check...
Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Do you have the game where "Hoe" gets command ??? I would like to see that one if you have it?
The leader cas should be random but I am playing 4 test games today and will dbl check...

Odds of Leader-casulty is pretty low, so best way to test is create a special battle with as many leaders as possible on each side.

I have send you my land_combat file where Hoenloehe gets command, from my testing.


Regards
Bresh
NeverMan
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by NeverMan »

Marshall,

Can't you just code a test case for this and run it a few thousand times?

These are the exact type of things that should be able to be tested with a small coded test case. Playtesters should be worried about the more "unusual" situations.
bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Marshall,

Can't you just code a test case for this and run it a few thousand times?

These are the exact type of things that should be able to be tested with a small coded test case. Playtesters should be worried about the more "unusual" situations.

If i where developer, i just raise the chance of a "hit" in a test-enviroment and recompile, then do a couple battles with 5-10 leaders on both sides.
IF the commanding leaders are the only ones who get hit, the code needs a checkup about determining who get wounded/dies.


Regards
Bresh
bresh
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by bresh »

Did a couple more tests today.
This time again 7 French leaders, Allied 5(Mack(a),Brunswick(A),Charles(B),Hoenloehe(B),John(C) (Brunswick in command...) 3 Pr corps 7 Austrian.
Gd commit on. Guards commited 1.round.

Tested till 2 times castulties.
Again Napy bites it And Brunswick.

So now i had casulties in 4 battles always army leader...


Regards
Bresh
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Marshall Ellis
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Marshall Ellis »

I can easily type a cheat to make a leader get wounded so I'll look at this (hopefully today).
Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


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Jimmer
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Jimmer »

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I can easily type a cheat to make a leader get wounded so I'll look at this (hopefully today).
Can we get a list of cheats? Especially if they only work in AI games?
At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?
The Captain
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by The Captain »

How are we progressing on this?
What is the priority?

I really think Leader Casualty is an essential issue. Any realistic game requires this 'option'. So really it is critical that it works and that players can have confidence it what really is an esential component of the game.
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Marshall Ellis
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RE: Leader Casualty ???

Post by Marshall Ellis »

This will not make it in 1.06 BUT I will look at adding this to 1.07

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


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