Manxman

SamRo115 · Post by **SamRo115** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:23 am

In AE what type of ship is HMS Manxman [Abdiel-class fast cruiser minelayer] can it be put in both Surface action and mine laying TF's?

herwin · Post by **herwin** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:48 am

ORIGINAL: SamRo115

In AE what type of ship is HMS Manxman [Abdiel-class fast cruiser minelayer] can it be put in both Surface action and mine laying TF's?

A very fast (40 knot) minelayer with good cargo capacity (about 3000 troops) and heavy destroyer-caliber armament. Highly vulnerable to mining and torpedoes due to the lack of subdivision on the mine deck.

Nemo121 · Post by **Nemo121** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:01 am

Yes, quite a daring ship design for the Royal Navy at the time...

spence · Post by **spence** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:23 am

IMO the more important question is whether it will have any more operational utility. In Vanilla, nothing moves any faster than 30 kts.

Terminus · Post by **Terminus** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:27 am

"herwin", don't answer questions relating to AE OOB or game mechanics. You're not authorized to do so.

SamRo115 · Post by **SamRo115** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:39 am

Can it be added to a "surface combat", "bombardment" TFs? or just "mine warfare", "Transport" ect?

herwin · Post by **herwin** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:25 am

ORIGINAL: Terminus

"herwin", don't answer questions relating to AE OOB or game mechanics. You're not authorized to do so.

Was I? I was responding about reality.

herwin · Post by **herwin** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:27 am

ORIGINAL: SamRo115

Can it be added to a "surface combat", "bombardment" TFs? or just "mine warfare", "Transport" ect?

In RHS, we use CL as the class for similar ships. It's suitably multi-purpose.

Don Bowen · Post by **Don Bowen** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:32 am

ORIGINAL: SamRo115

Can it be added to a "surface combat", "bombardment" TFs? or just "mine warfare", "Transport" ect?

The Abdiel class are defined as Minelayers (CM) in AE and as such can not be added to surface combat or bombardment TFs.

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:55 am

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
ORIGINAL: SamRo115
Can it be added to a "surface combat", "bombardment" TFs? or just "mine warfare", "Transport" ect?
The Abdiel class are defined as Minelayers (CM) in AE and as such can not be added to surface combat or bombardment TFs.

Yepperino. All minelayers (CM), as a Type, can be put in Transport, Fast Transport, Cargo, etc.. TFs, and, of course, Mine Laying TFs. But that's it.

Abdiel class are definitely in game faster than 30 knots. Ariadne trial 39.75 knots, rated 38 knots sustained, iirc. May carry about 300 troops and 300 tons cargo. No amphibious assist capability.

herwin · Post by **herwin** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:33 pm

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
ORIGINAL: SamRo115
Can it be added to a "surface combat", "bombardment" TFs? or just "mine warfare", "Transport" ect?
The Abdiel class are defined as Minelayers (CM) in AE and as such can not be added to surface combat or bombardment TFs.
Yepperino. All minelayers (CM), as a Type, can be put in Transport, Fast Transport, Cargo, etc.. TFs, and, of course, Mine Laying TFs. But that's it.

Abdiel class are definitely in game faster than 30 knots. Ariadne trial 39.75 knots, rated 38 knots sustained, iirc. May carry about 300 troops and 300 tons cargo. No amphibious assist capability.

Ships of this class carried 800 commandos for a landing at Suda Bay, 930 men with other cargo, 1000 men, 3900 men, 6300/two ships of class between Tobruck and Alexandria, 7100/two ships of class between Tobruck and Alexandria, a total of 14000 (5th Indian Division) shared with 10 DD in the fast transport force. A couple of airborne battalions to Taranto (amphibious landing). 300+300 is a marked underestimate of her capacity.

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:16 pm

Not really. You can cram a couple thousand troops on just about anything. There is a vast difference between cramming the decks with bodies for a 9 hour, harbor-to-harbor and pier-to-pier delivery run (Alex to Tobruk), and a sustained capability over long distances and for long periods of time. The later is how troop capacity functions in the game; which is what the question is directed to. Troop and cargo capacity may be cross loaded between each other.

Abdiel class was never fitted to carry the array of landing craft necessary for amphibious operations. If its boats were struck, it could substitute 5 Higgins types, on its boat davits, iirc. Making her more capable than a Bayfield class assault transport would be a bit silly.

herwin · Post by **herwin** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:51 pm

ORIGINAL: JWE

Not really. You can cram a couple thousand troops on just about anything. There is a vast difference between cramming the decks with bodies for a 9 hour, harbor-to-harbor and pier-to-pier delivery run (Alex to Tobruk), and a sustained capability over long distances and for long periods of time. The later is how troop capacity functions in the game; which is what the question is directed to. Troop and cargo capacity may be cross loaded between each other.

Abdiel class was never fitted to carry the array of landing craft necessary for amphibious operations. If its boats were struck, it could substitute 5 Higgins types, on its boat davits, iirc. Making her more capable than a Bayfield class assault transport would be a bit silly.

They were used a number of times for landing operations, though, with a capacity of 800 (commandoes at Suda Bay)-1600 (airborne at Taranto).

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:36 pm

ORIGINAL: herwin
They were used a number of times for landing operations, though, with a capacity of 800 (commandoes at Suda Bay)-1600 (airborne at Taranto).

Suda Bay. After the disaster of 22 May, Admiral Cunningham would only allow the fastest warships to make the round trip from Alexandria to the Suda Bay harbor, to land reinforcements and essential stores, during the hours of darkness.

24 May, HMS Abdiel lands her cargo of 211 men of “A” Battalion of Layforce at the Main quay at Suda Bay. The remainder return to Alex, after having failed to land at Paleokhora due to high seas. 25 May, 3:00 am, Abdiel embarks prisoners and wounded and returns to Alex.

26 May, HMS Abdiel, in company with HMS Hero and Nizam, returns to Suda Bay and together they land the remaining 306 members of HQ Gp., and “D” Battalion of Layforce at Main quay. 27 May, morning: Abdiel embarks about 930 wounded, “[C]arried endlessly up the gangway from the rickety quay, till there was scarcely a place to step on the open decks. We were frightfully concerned for their comfort, since the sea was high, and they were completely exposed.” (Capt. Evelyn Waugh, Layforce)

Port-to-port, pier-to-pier in a friendly (although dangerous) harbor. Definitely not a ‘landing’ op.

Checking on Taranto.

JWE · Post by **JWE** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:01 pm

Taranto; Operation Slapstick. Since Italy surrendered and there were no German forces in the vicinity, elements of (critical term) of 1st British ABD were transported directly to the port of Taranto from Bizerte on HMS Abdiel, Aurora, Penelope, Dido and 2 DDs; approximately 3600 total. HMS Abdiel strikes a mine and incurs 244 casualties to embarked troops – stated as 40 %, implying a troop complement of 600, on an 11 hour pier-to-pier mission. No amphib operations were conducted at Taranto. Troops walked off the gangplank.

Aha - Abdiel carried 6th Battalion of The Parachute Regiment (part of 2nd Para Brigade) which had an authorized strength of 613 Officers and men (unk how many actually participated). 101 or 120 (sources conflict) killed, further 120 wounded, plus 48 killed, 6 wounded of Abdiel’s company. USS Boise carried 788 officers and men during same op. Boise unloaded at the mole; Abdiel chose a mooring, where she was sunk.

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