What is or should be GoA

Adanac's Strategic level World War I grand campaign game designed by Frank Hunter

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HvMoltke
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What is or should be GoA

Post by HvMoltke »

Hi
I offerd my provocative opinion about GoA, but as there is not a single reply it seems I used the wrong thread, or is this Forum already dead and gone?
Okay here again:

I`m not a longtime player of GoA but after only two games I got problems with the intention of that game.
Is it either a recreation of the real WWI or is it a what-if game.
In both cases I have the feeling it misses.
As I said I`m not a experienced player of GoA anyway I have my knowledge about history.

Let`s talk about the Alpine Front.
Fact is the Italian Alpini were not defeated in alpine warfare, but in the Isonzo Battle, which was quite a regular land battle. So not in GoA. Just take a few AH Corps and you soon stroll the Uffici in Florence and soon after you are down in Rome at Fontana di Trevi.
Okay, if it is a what-if game, you take Italy and let it pay, but again, you loose all the benefit of having conquered the Po plain and the possibility to have unrestricted access to hardgrain pasta and even more to have access to the weak bottom of south France.

If you go for Russia as CP , same problem.
You capture the Ukraine which is the grain bowl of Russia and anyway Germany starves to surrender. At that time haute cousine and even "go large" was unknown to most of the Germans, you remember they were nicknamed Krauts, so why do they starve?

If I missed something with this game can anybody please help me understand it? Every reply is much appreciated.
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lordhoff
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RE: What is or should be GoA

Post by lordhoff »

There are bread icons that represent food source hexes that if captured some (or none, especially if a battle was fought there) of the value goes to your country. Germany did starve - that was one of the reasons for the revolution that ended the war even with USSR treaty obligations to supply food stuffs and the main reason for the allied blockade.

Italy does seem rather easy to defeat but you don't lose access to southern France; you just have to pay your way through via cavalry or offensive options since the local populace wasn't exactly friendly to their former AH masters. I am not absolute on this, but I do believe some material advantage goes to victors depending on what hexes were captured prior to Italian surrender. Search this forum - I recall a few discussions on this.

As per a dead forum - it was quite lively a few months ago. I think it may have taken a winter break as some of the staff had vacation time so official answers were not as fast as prior. I really doubt interest has dried up so quickly - especially with the new WW I game having so many teething problems.

If it is a "what if" game, it falls terribly short as there is no way for US entry with Germany and other countries who historically drove a hard bargain for their taking sides. I believe it is more of a historic simulation but, if a game is to be a game and not just a WW I movie, there has to be some variance.

I haven't played in a few months - had to attend to that huge backlog of games I have - but I did enjoy trying my hand at several strategies with both sides. I do suggest giving the CP an advantage, though. From what I've seen, this best reflects the realities of the war.
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anarchyintheuk
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RE: What is or should be GoA

Post by anarchyintheuk »

Adding to what lordhoff said on the Ukraine. I think it would have taken several years for the production of the region to approach its pre-war level. From the little I've read about it I get the impression that the German garrison in Russia pretty much ate/squandered any excess that might have been available in 1918.
SMK-at-work
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RE: What is or should be GoA

Post by SMK-at-work »

IIRC conquered Russia only delivered about 20k tons of food to Germany before the end of hte war - somewhere on this board I've got some posts on this that you might be able to look up.

Germany was already starving by the end of 1916.

Edit - found some - there's a thread on here called "Blockade + Jutland" you can search for that has some info & links.
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Sewerlobster
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RE: What is or should be GoA

Post by Sewerlobster »

ORIGINAL: Hellmuth v.Moltke
I`m not a longtime player of GoA but after only two games I got problems with the intention of that game.
Is it either a recreation of the real WWI or is it a what-if game.
In both cases I have the feeling it misses.
As I said I`m not a experienced player of GoA anyway I have my knowledge about history.

I'm not quite sure what you feel is missing. Any wargame that is a strict recreation of its topic quickly becomes staid, as it must therefore always end in a near duplication of history. IMHO all good wargames must offer both the possibility of repeating the actual general outcome and an exploration of the what ifs. In that I mean for the game to be balanced and historically perspective, if both players make all the same choices as were made historically then the only what ifs included should be the die rolls that determine the battle outcomes. Likewise the strategic choice deviations should yield plausible results and yet not be so inticing as to always seem like the better choice.

GoA seems to have the first part. Looking at the mainly the CP's choices because they start the game with the initiative and that dictates the TE's options. If the CP chooses a West first - pause - East finish then West finish and the TE sticks to historical choices; then the game falls into predictible break points: Do the German's penetrate far enough into France at phase 1, does Russia win enough to require Germany to move East, can the CP beat Russia soon enough to get back West, can the TE West counter attack and win by the historical timeline. Yeah sure, if Germany win enough die rolls early she beats France early and the game deviates from history -- that's the point.

GoA also seems to have the second point. It's also a not too far fetched idea to have the CP attack and finish Russia first. Less often but still feasible is to blockade and starve out Britian first. As for your Alpine problems you don't say whether your playing against the AI or an opponent. The AI does some odd things the first few times you play -- this AI looks for your playing patterns and tries to take advantage of them. Early on it has no pattern to use. Likewise a human opponent is quick to take advantage of any successful probe. This all falls under the realm of statistical probability. I do not think the game would be as playable if it forced the historical:"they never lost in Alpine combat so they can't in the game".

Give the game a few more passes and see if it starts to yield a better playing experience. I'm mostly a solitaire player of this one and have enjoyed this one alot.
Why choose the lesser evil: Vote Cthulhu.
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