When is enough..well...enough?

[madgamer2]

HOT DOG a kindred soul. It is nice to know i am not alone.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

Very interesting post. It comes a bit closer to what I wanted to say in part. I think that I am blaming the game for things that are really my own fault and short comings. I really want to play either WitP or AE well and if I don't it has more to do with me than the game if I fail.

Madgamer

[bradfordkay]

Madgamer, please don't sell yourself short. The fact that you keep trying to understand WITP means that you are far ahead of your average ADHD citizen (who gets all his intellectual stimulus from the boob tube).

Take your time to enjoy WITP. What does it matter if you only play one turn a day - get everything out of that turn that you can. Spend the time to look at everything. Pretty soon, you'll develop a routine that takes you to all the hotspots every day and let's you check on the rest on a regular basis. Have fun, this game is worth it!

[W T Door]

Steep learning curve on this one, vast amounts of detail to track, so it's pretty easy to be overwhelmed. You end up handling a lot of things that a real theater commander would have a staff to handle. I know that forgetting to do something with a unit or base has had unfortunate results for me on many occaissions.
 
The tendency of the AI to appropriate things is problematic as well. I've lost lots of auxilliaries to this when the game decided that a base that had been left behind by the progress of a campaign needed more supplies and sent a bunch of supply ships through enemy held territory to provide for it. It's pretty alarming to be concentrating on an operation in one area of the map, run a turn and have the action window pop up telling you that a bunch of ships were sunk in an area you didn't have anything in, only to discover that the AI sent them there enroute to some backwater base. Subs fall victim to the same fate, one has a submarine under repair or conversion at a base, you go back to check on it and discover it's been sent on patrol in the heart of the enemy ASW effort once it got below 5% damage. The fact that the Magic KB (TM) is apparently invisible to allied subs seems a recurrent problem as well.

[Erik Rutins]

madgamer,

ORIGINAL: madgamer
I see AE more as an effort to make the game larger and more complex and adding even more detail than is really necessary. It will fix some problems but these could be addressed by a couple of patch's.
Will I buy AE...perhaps depending on price....will I play it? no comment. Do I think there will ever be a WitP 2? I am 68 and my father is 96 and if I live to be his age maybe I will see a WitP 2, Or maybe just more upgrades like AE...say AE 2.
It is all top much for me so the micro manager types have won again. I do spend time thinking what AE COULD have been or if WitP 2 was being done now instead. Well good luck to you all I did not mean to stepon any toes and will check back from time to time but for now its back to my real life

Just my $.02...

AE improves on a lot more than could ever be "fixed" in a patch - a HUGE amount of work in terms of man-hours has gone into this new release, probably twice as much as went into the original WITP, which is saying a lot. AE has more detail, but it doesn't feel like a huge additional burden when you play it. AE has an incredible array of new features and a greatly improved AI that make playing it a great joy for both PBEM and vs. AI players. IMHO, once you play AE, you'll want to keep playing AE.

Regards,

- Erik

[Justascratch]

I'm another "play the AI" kinda guy. From my perspective there are so many companies pulling data and complexity out of today's waregames that I feel compelled to say I love the data, I love the detail, I love the micromanagement, and I love games with humongus scale!
 
There are so few games that give me all of that wrapped up in a subject matter that never gets old.
 
Just stop and think about it.  We can by dumbed down anywhere.
 
So for me, keep it deep, complex and make me earn that victory!
 
 

[langleyCV1]

I must agree with Justascratch I for one also look forward to the extra detail and micromangment this game will bring.
 
MJT

[Grotius]

Justascratch and Erik said it well. I want that extra detail!

[Treznor]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

So AE is a "Stand-Alone-Game" that requires another "Stand-Alone-Game"? [&:]

So we may call it "Stand-Alone-Together-Game" or "Stand-Side-by-Side-Game" or a "Linked/Dependent/Software-bonded-Stand-Alone-Game"?

Flies in the face of logic... But who cares - we want it, whatever it is called or requires!

LST (sry for abv.) has a point about this 'stand alone game'. How difficult would it be to sell it seperate? I would think you would get more sales than if someone had to buy the first and then buy the second. Only 1 computer game I can think of that would be worth $100 bucks, and it would not be this one. It is a great game and I'm sure AE will be even better but overall I think that Matrix would be shooting themselves in the foot by selling as a 'addon' to the original WITP.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Wouldnt that be tricus? [:D]

Ahh the shredded wheat biscus?

[Luskan]

I'm playing 3 turns a night and 5-10 on most weekends at the moment, and I'm just worried that AE will release in the middle of my current conquest . . . we've vowed not to give up WITP for AE mid game

Has been a while since I posted (rediscovered WITP about 4 months ago and am back into it with a vengeance).  [:D]

As for the cost of AE . . . WITP has probably cost me 1 cent per hour I've spent playing/enjoying/cursing it over the 4? 7? years since I got addicted. I've no doubt the matrix guys will deliver similar value in AE.

[bradfordkay]

Welcome back!   

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Luskan

As for the cost of AE . . . WITP has probably cost me 1 cent per hour I've spent playing/enjoying/cursing it over the 4? 7? years since I got addicted. I've no doubt the matrix guys will deliver similar value in AE.

I hope I'm remembering right - it was about $70? x 60 = 4,200 pennies. At 1 penny per hour, that's 4,200 hours. Average turn length, let's say 30 minutes. Might be longer with replay and long turns figured in. At 30 minutes that comes to only 2,100 turns. 2,100 / 365 = roughly 5.75 game-years total. I'll venture a guess that most players on this forum are way under 1 penny (US) per turn! [:)][8D]

Oh yeah, that's way under 1 penny per hour. A movie now is around $10 bucks, plus extras. Without the extras that's around 500 pennies per hour. So WITP is at least 500 times less expensive than going to a movie. For many people it's thousands of times less expensive. Take that, bad economy! [:D]

EDIT: And before you say the computer costs money, so does the auto that takes you to the movie and the clothes you wear. You can play WITP in the buff! [X(]

[Flying Tiger]

ORIGINAL: Luskan

I'm playing 3 turns a night and 5-10 on most weekends at the moment, and I'm just worried that AE will release in the middle of my current conquest . . . we've vowed not to give up WITP for AE mid game

Has been a while since I posted (rediscovered WITP about 4 months ago and am back into it with a vengeance).  [:D]

As for the cost of AE . . . WITP has probably cost me 1 cent per hour I've spent playing/enjoying/cursing it over the 4? 7? years since I got addicted. I've no doubt the matrix guys will deliver similar value in AE.

Yeah, welcome back mate!! Will we see Luskan vs Raver (part XVII) anytime soon?? Or are you waiting for AE?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Luskan

I'm playing 3 turns a night and 5-10 on most weekends at the moment, and I'm just worried that AE will release in the middle of my current conquest . . . we've vowed not to give up WITP for AE mid game

Has been a while since I posted (rediscovered WITP about 4 months ago and am back into it with a vengeance).  [:D]

As for the cost of AE . . . WITP has probably cost me 1 cent per hour I've spent playing/enjoying/cursing it over the 4? 7? years since I got addicted. I've no doubt the matrix guys will deliver similar value in AE.

Welcome back! I've really missed the dancing banana. [:D]

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I hope I'm remembering right - it was about $70? x 60 = 4,200 pennies.

Ever watch that show: "are you smarter than a 5th grader"? Well frankly I havent, but I knew in 5th grade that $70.00 x 60 is 4200 DIMES.

[Grotius]

I'm playing 3 turns a night and 5-10 on most weekends at the moment, and I'm just worried that AE will release in the middle of my current conquest

Welcome back, Luskan! Are you playing the AI, or is this a PBEM? Either way, glad to hear you're back into WITP. I always enjoyed your epic battles with Raverdave.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I hope I'm remembering right - it was about $70? x 60 = 4,200 pennies.

Ever watch that show: "are you smarter than a 5th grader"? Well frankly I havent, but I knew in 5th grade that $70.00 x 60 is 4200 DIMES.

I spent some time working with latitude and longitude (60 minutes per degree, etc.) and blindly used the same rate. Of course it's 7,000 pennies. The figures are slightly different but the result is the same - WITP is hundreds or even thousands of times cheaper than going to a movie.

[Iridium]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


Ever watch that show: "are you smarter than a 5th grader"? Well frankly I havent, but I knew in 5th grade that $70.00 x 60 is 4200 DIMES.

Huh, here I thought it was 10 dimes, 100 pennies or 4 quarters to the dollar...[:'(]

[madgamer2]

Noting that you are new to this game you should be told that ..yes you can learn to ply it after many, many long hours of spending time TRYING to play the game. Pick out a period of say 6 months at some point like Dec.41-Jun. 42 or Jun. 42 to Dec. 42 and keep playing that same time period over a few times. Each time you play it you should have less "I forgot to do...." kind of thoughts. The time factor is the main problem for me. I love this game but I am not sure I can devote the amount of time it would require to learn it.
I play the AI as the Allies as I do not make sense of the Jap production system. I let the computer run China till/if it it becomes a mess then I step in. I have found the China computer allies vs. China computer Jap AI to be a even situation. I tell my subs where to move and then let the computer do the rest. Have all other areas under human control.
I find the problem with WitP is that it was the first game that I ever played that had the detail that this game does. It is difficult to have an interface that lets you use this mass amount of data. I have come to the belief that the level of simulation that this game does requires a AI to be able to preform at a higher level also. More complexity makes programing a good AI more difficult. If you want to play you have to spend the time and I am not sure I want to do this. I will try AE if not to much money but I am not willing to spend time beyond a certain point on any game no matter how much I like it.
There seem to be a large group of folks who have real life jobs and commitments that find the time for doing several turns each real day of there life but Not me, I just do not think it worth it but with AE I will have to wait and see.

Madgamer