Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
aciddrinker
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:03 pm
Location: Poland

Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by aciddrinker »

Are there some improvements to not allow Japan side player run multiple truns ??
Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

I have never seen anything to prove to me that this is anything more than the Jap player seeing his own replay bug. I have had someone tell me step by step what they did to get different results using their saves and there was no end result that was ever different. You are concerned over nothing.
User avatar
Terminus
Posts: 39782
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Denmark

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Terminus »

Exactly. It's a myth.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Exactly. It's a myth.

it´s not a myth! You won´t believe me that´s for sure but just for the sake of it. It rarely happens though, perhaps it was 4 or 5 times in a thousand turns but I had my PC crash during the order phase, after the combat replay and so I had to run the original turn I got from my opponent. Guess what, other results happened. Different hits on major targets, means ships I care of. So this probably happened more often than I really realized it as you don´t really realize it if a recon finds it´s target base or if you achieve 50 or 62 hits on an airfield. And I only had it happen when my PC crashed as I don´t have a reason to rerun turns anyway.

And to clarify that it wasn´t a replay bug of the Japanese, if you first see all torps missing your BB and see an undamaged BB during the order phase but on the second time you run the original turn you see three torps hitting your BB and then during the order phase you see your BB in sinking condition then that´s far from being a myth.

Of course you just don´t have to believe me and take it as a myth like many other things. It´s a bug but it happens so rarely (as you normally don´t run the turns again anyway) that I don´t really care of as there are far more and far severe bugs in the game. Still in the game with no chance to fix them all (that´s no complaint, it´s a computer programme after all) as you fix two bugs and fix-break a working routine the same time.
User avatar
Barb
Posts: 2503
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:17 am
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Barb »

castor: I would join the computer crash with different results. Easy test here.
Image
User avatar
Quixote
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Quixote »

Not that it really bothers me, but I've had the same results as Castor. If the program locks up, and I have to re-run the turn, I'll always get different results if I hadn't saved the game before the lock-up. Not a big deal for me, since when I've tried to get this to happen I'm unable to reproduce the effect, but it does exist. As long as you can't make it happen on demand ( cheating ), it's not much of a game breaker for me. Let's face it, occasionally odd things happen in every game, so it also helps to have a good PBEM partner - someone you trust and enjoy playing. Guess I've been lucky so far in that regard.
Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

Well if thats true that the Jap player can change the result .4% or .5% of the time, I certainly wouldnt be terribly concerned if I was the allied player. Any Jap player that would go to that extreme to "cheat" is going to quit the first time he loses a carrier anyways.
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if thats true that the Jap player can change the result .4% or .5% of the time, I certainly wouldnt be terribly concerned if I was the allied player. Any Jap player that would go to that extreme to "cheat" is going to quit the first time he loses a carrier anyways.

you are correct, that´s why I said I´m not really bothered with this bug either. But it´s definetely NOT a myth, that´s why I posted. And there is also the possibility to cheat when a Japanese player knows how to get the game to freeze. Then rerun the turn and let´s see. Of course running a turn with this method on and on doesn´t mean you will get a different "end-result" but you are still trying to cheat. I mean, e.g. the only thing that would help your CV TF from not being 100% trashed by an Allied death star would be the Allied death star clouded in in both phases, not able to launch ac. It doesn´t matter if in one turn you see 34 bomb and 23 torp hits on your CVs and in another 31 and 28 because both times you will lose all your carriers, but the turns definetely weren´t the same.

So there is a way to cheat, you just have to do it often enough, to perhaps get the enemy fail to locate you, being clouded in...

Still, it doesn´t bother me. But it´s NOT a myth! [;)]
User avatar
JeffroK
Posts: 6380
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by JeffroK »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if thats true that the Jap player can change the result .4% or .5% of the time, I certainly wouldnt be terribly concerned if I was the allied player. Any Jap player that would go to that extreme to "cheat" is going to quit the first time he loses a carrier anyways.

So enabling the japanese player to alter his result a couple of times a years isnt a problem!!!!

If I was playing as Allied I wouldnt be happy with this. Given the knifes edge some games go re the CV balance, changing the result of even 1 turn could be fatal.

Having seen others post on this it should definatly be on the list of things to fix by the programmers, not for Vanilla AE but down the track somewhere.

PS. Because its being reported means that it is happening, its not just a theory.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if thats true that the Jap player can change the result .4% or .5% of the time, I certainly wouldnt be terribly concerned if I was the allied player. Any Jap player that would go to that extreme to "cheat" is going to quit the first time he loses a carrier anyways.

PS. Because its being reported means that it is happening, its not just a theory.


only if you believe what people are saying... that´s obviously not always the case... [;)]
Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well if thats true that the Jap player can change the result .4% or .5% of the time, I certainly wouldnt be terribly concerned if I was the allied player. Any Jap player that would go to that extreme to "cheat" is going to quit the first time he loses a carrier anyways.

PS. Because its being reported means that it is happening, its not just a theory.


only if you believe what people are saying... that´s obviously not always the case... [;)]

Not to mention what you see isnt by necessity, "real". Look at the results AFTER combat and see if they are different than the results AFTER the other combat. Just because you see a "different" replay than what you saw before doesnt mean you are getting a different RESULT. Its called the sync bug guys, and yes the Jap player if he re-runs the .001 file or any other number of possible run-throughs may SEE a different result in the replay also, but the FINAL result is the same.

Edit: No one has ever shown me 2 saves from the same game that have different air losses. Show me THAT, and I will concede that it MAY happen occasionally, yet still not often enough to justify the time it took me to type this all out.
User avatar
JeffroK
Posts: 6380
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by JeffroK »

Do you even matter?

Maybe this should have been poted in the Support thread where the real programmers look.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: JeffK




PS. Because its being reported means that it is happening, its not just a theory.


only if you believe what people are saying... that´s obviously not always the case... [;)]

Not to mention what you see isnt by necessity, "real". Look at the results AFTER combat and see if they are different than the results AFTER the other combat. Just because you see a "different" replay than what you saw before doesnt mean you are getting a different RESULT. Its called the sync bug guys, and yes the Jap player if he re-runs the .001 file or any other number of possible run-throughs may SEE a different result in the replay also, but the FINAL result is the same.

Edit: No one has ever shown me 2 saves from the same game that have different air losses. Show me THAT, and I will concede that it MAY happen occasionally, yet still not often enough to justify the time it took me to type this all out.


lol, sorry Yamato hugger but it seems you´re infected by habits like Terminus seems to have. If you read my posts above you will see that I´ve told that I´m seeing the damage AFTER the combat phase, during the orders phase. I´ve clearly said that the RESULT is different! And I know what the synch bug is, this is not... [8|] Sorry, I´m not a newb that just started with this game, unfortunately (yes, unfortunately) I´ve spent hundreds, no, thousands of hours with this game the last 4,5 years! Shocking as it is, but I know what is happening and what´s strange... from playing and seeing strange results. But hey, as usual, the next thing that will be brought up: shut up, you don´t see the code, I do! Been there, heard that...

And yes of course, don´t believe anyone, until he sends you two saves of the same turn. Easy to do, really, especially when you´re told that it happens when the game freezes during the orders phase. So you would have to save EVERYTIME after the combat replay.

Seriously, I don´t care about the bug, I don´t care if you believe me or the other posters. Who really cares? I´m just amazed that the behaviour of some people that are some kind of involved with Matrix seems to become worse, but again who really cares?

Of course you could - and obviously do - believe rude forum members that are also involved with Matrix and that are spending more time posting rude and unhelpful comments instead of playing the game that say:

"No, it´s a myth!" [8|] .... one last comment: lol

Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

ORIGINAL: castor troy

lol, sorry Yamato hugger but it seems you´re infected by habits like Terminus seems to have. If you read my posts above you will see that I´ve told that I´m seeing the damage AFTER the combat phase, during the orders phase. I´ve clearly said that the RESULT is different!

And if you had read MY posts you will see that I have clearly said that I havent seen it. Send me the 2 saves. Or better still 3, the allied turn before running the turn and the 2 after. Until I see these saves and insure that nothing changed during the allied player turn to alter the result I have no reason to believe you.
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: castor troy

lol, sorry Yamato hugger but it seems you´re infected by habits like Terminus seems to have. If you read my posts above you will see that I´ve told that I´m seeing the damage AFTER the combat phase, during the orders phase. I´ve clearly said that the RESULT is different!

And if you had read MY posts you will see that I have clearly said that I havent seen it. Send me the 2 saves. Or better still 3, the allied turn before running the turn and the 2 after. Until I see these saves and insure that nothing changed during the allied player turn to alter the result I have no reason to believe you.


you don´t have to...
Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Do you even matter?

Maybe this should have been poted in the Support thread where the real programmers look.

I am the project coordinator for 1.807. Joe W is the only programmer currently allowed (by my understanding) to work on WitP, and he hasnt worked on it in almost 2 years being tied down with other projects (AE being only 1 of them). I track bugs and make a priority list of things to fix in WitP.

So to answer your question: yes - I matter. Good enough?
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Do you even matter?

Maybe this should have been poted in the Support thread where the real programmers look.

I am the project coordinator for 1.807. Joe W is the only programmer currently allowed (by my understanding) to work on WitP, and he hasnt worked on it in almost 2 years being tied down with other projects (AE being only 1 of them). I track bugs and make a priority list of things to fix in WitP.

So to answer your question: yes - I matter. Good enough?


I´m already really excited about the unevitable bugs in AE, I´m sure it will be a good way not to listen to long term players then... will surely help fixing things.

And of course the rude sound will encourage people helping to track bugs down. [:'(]

Yamato hugger
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by Yamato hugger »

The simple fact is this: I cant report what I cant see. I cant provide the information to fix it, if I havent seen it. If you dont have a save, or saves, then we have no way to track what is wrong and fix it. So you SAYING it happens frankly doesnt mean squat unless you also provide the means of finding out what is wrong. Understand?

You SAYING it happens means nothing. Believing you or not means NOTHING. If its there and its a problem I need to see it. Plain and simple, OK? Can I be any clearer than that?

Edit: A year or so ago, I invested several hours trying to track this because someone "said" it happens. He sent me saves and I ran trest after test, following his instructions to the letter. E mails back and forth, and the net result was the final resut was the same. I already said, and I quote:

Edit: No one has ever shown me 2 saves from the same game that have different air losses. Show me THAT, and I will concede that it MAY happen occasionally, yet still not often enough to justify the time it took me to type this all out.

So if YOU think its a problem that needs to get fixed, this is all you have to do:
1) Send me saves.
2) Tell me how to duplicate what your problem is.
3) Answer any questions I have after I try what you say.

Simple. If you want to use me as a whipping boy because of every bug that pops up in AE, be my guest. Im sure there will be a lot of them. And if you are deranged enough to honestly believe that I should be able to find each and every one then all I can say is God bless you. Wish I lived in your world.
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

The simple fact is this: I cant report what I cant see. I cant provide the information to fix it, if I havent seen it. If you dont have a save, or saves, then we have no way to track what is wrong and fix it. So you SAYING it happens frankly doesnt mean squat unless you also provide the means of finding out what is wrong. Understand?

You SAYING it happens means nothing. Believing you or not means NOTHING. If its there and its a problem I need to see it. Plain and simple, OK? Can I be any clearer than that?


I know you can´t do anything if you aren´t able to reproduce it. The only way to get you three! saves when it happens is to tell the Allied player: always save immediately after the combat replay. Then the Japanese: always save immediately after the combat replay and to make sure, also during the order phase... Then, after the first 50 turns, your game freezes during the order phase, you rerun the turn and PERHAPS you then get different results! I didn´t even say you ALWAYS get different results then, but I saw it happen when exactly this happened. Well, other forum members seem to confirm that.

Now I´ve also said that it´s not a major issue (is it even an issue for me?) to track this rare bug down. It´s surely not important enough (for me) to flood my hard disc with WITP saves (three per turn, 1000+ per game year) to get 20x3 saves when the game freezed and 5x3 saves when rerunning the turn showed different results. When there is nearly no action during the turn, then the result won´t be different anyway! No BB/CV/whatever there to be hit, no different result.

The reason I jumped in this thread is simple: I answered the post: "No, it´s just a myth". Now I know that the allmighty people involved in this Matrix project don´t believe anyone, no matter if there is 1, 10 or 100 people are saying the same. I just wanted to point out that it´s not a myth. I guess 3.000 or so PBEM turns enable me to make comments on the game, no matter if someone believes me or not. There will be people that believe me, some won´t.

Fact is (for me) that different results from rerunning the Japanese turn can happen. If someone puts enough tries into it, perhaps he can even figure out to make it happen more often, who knows, I won´t test it. And like I´ve mentioned it above, I also didn´t like (but who really cares if I like something o not) the way the answers sounded. While I´m used to more or less rude answers from your collegue, I was not used to such answers from you until recently. I´m sorry if someone that is involved in programming, testing, looking things up for the game is feeling he´s attacked by other forum members when they post something about the game that "seems" not to be right. But that´s how it has sounded for quite some time already.

But perhaps it´s only the language barrier as I´m no native speaker (at least in your case, not in the case of your collegue, because if it has to be, you can look up the three or four words of his rude replies).
User avatar
castor troy
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Austria

RE: Japan running multiple turn in PBEM

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

The simple fact is this: I cant report what I cant see. I cant provide the information to fix it, if I havent seen it. If you dont have a save, or saves, then we have no way to track what is wrong and fix it. So you SAYING it happens frankly doesnt mean squat unless you also provide the means of finding out what is wrong. Understand?

You SAYING it happens means nothing. Believing you or not means NOTHING. If its there and its a problem I need to see it. Plain and simple, OK? Can I be any clearer than that?

Edit: A year or so ago, I invested several hours trying to track this because someone "said" it happens. He sent me saves and I ran trest after test, following his instructions to the letter. E mails back and forth, and the net result was the final resut was the same. I already said, and I quote:

Edit: No one has ever shown me 2 saves from the same game that have different air losses. Show me THAT, and I will concede that it MAY happen occasionally, yet still not often enough to justify the time it took me to type this all out.

So if YOU think its a problem that needs to get fixed, this is all you have to do:
1) Send me saves.
2) Tell me how to duplicate what your problem is.
3) Answer any questions I have after I try what you say.

Simple. If you want to use me as a whipping boy because of every bug that pops up in AE, be my guest. Im sure there will be a lot of them. And if you are deranged enough to honestly believe that I should be able to find each and every one then all I can say is God bless you. Wish I lived in your world.



While I was typing a quote to your orignal reply, you edited yours. Go ahead and read my reply to your original post. I found it ok, but well, as you´ve edited it, this is exactly what I pointed out earlier: why is there a reason to come up with rude posts? I don´t get it.

I´ve never blamed ANYONE for bugs in this game. Who should I make responsible for bugs. It is how it is, a programme like this one must be full of bugs. AE will be as full of bugs as WITP was in the beginning, I will buy it, but surely not play it before the first couple of patches. Just to clarify things...

I can only repeat myself: I think your replies became somewhat rude, unappropriate or whatever you would like to call it. Perhaps you feel being attacked, who knows. But answering people (that in fact don´t want to do anything else than trying to "help") like you and to more extend your Danish friend is doing it is something I don´t understand.
Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”