do I have this right...

From the legendary team at 2 by 3 Games comes a new grand strategy masterpiece: Gary Grigsby’s War Between the States. Taking gamers back to the American Civil War, this innovative grand strategy game allows players to experience the trials and tribulations of the role of commander-in-chief for either side. Historically accurate, detailed and finely balanced for realistic gameplay, War Between the States is also easy to play and does not take months to finish.

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GBS
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do I have this right...

Post by GBS »

A stack in a region with resources will use those resources to supply itself First. Then it will pull supply from other sources of supply through the Grid. Correct? All the supply that is produced during the manufacturing phase is generally used up this way. Any that is not used will remain on the map as one of the wagons icons with the amount of supply it has remaining. If all is used the wagon is removed. Is there any reason to specify where a supply wagon is to be created rather than just randomly by using all remaining manufacturing points to produce supply.
Depots. The rules say that these are reserves and are not used to supply units. When are they used? It takes twenty supply to fill one. I placed a depot in Nashville because I have my TC there and he seems to need the 20 supply points. Is he not using them.
This is certainly not simple but I like that.
Also. I have used the forage action button for units out of supply by nothing happens. Is it because they must be in a region with resources? So do I need to move that unit to another region befor activating the forage button?
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by Joel Billings »

ORIGINAL: GBS

1) Is there any reason to specify where a supply wagon is to be created rather than just randomly by using all remaining manufacturing points to produce supply.

2) Depots. The rules say that these are reserves and are not used to supply units. When are they used? It takes twenty supply to fill one. I placed a depot in Nashville because I have my TC there and he seems to need the 20 supply points. Is he not using them.

3) I have used the forage action button for units out of supply by nothing happens. Is it because they must be in a region with resources? So do I need to move that unit to another region befor activating the forage button?

1) If all your areas are linked together, then there is no need to worry about where exactly the supplies are being built. If you have a group of regions cut off from the others (say areas west of the Mississippi are cut off from those east of the river because the Union controls the entire river), then you should keep track of where you have supplies. In the case of the East/West split, I just keep track of the units in the west, and make sure I have enough supplies for them from the factories in Texas, Arkansas, and West Louisiana, and then I deduct the supplies and supply need from these areas from the total to figure out what I need in the east.

2) The only reason to ever build a depot in one of your permanent states is if you want to influence the retreat path of your units (which means almost never do it). You gain nothing in terms of supply and initiative from a depot in a friendly area. The 20 supplies in a depot are unavailable for use by the units. So you are just restricting your supplies available by building depots. You have to disband the depot to be able to use the supplies. Actually, then, there is one other use for depots. If you have an area that is going to be surrounded and you want to try to hold out there for awhile, you could build depots in the area before it is cut off from factories, and then over time disband the depots and use the supplies. I don't expect this to happen in many games though as it probably won't pay off in the long run. Depots are good for helping leaders (not TC's) get initiative when in border or hostile states.

3) In order to forage you must be in an area with available resources (if infantry/militia/cav/mounted) or be in an area that can draw supplies from the supply grid. See section 12.2 of the rules. Yes, to use resources, you have to move the unit. Since a unit would be supplied if there were any available on the supply grid, you either need to capture some supplies via raiding, or move your units to a place where they are on a supply grid with supplies.
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dakjck
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by dakjck »

So if you move Price into Missouri, you should build a depot where Price is?
 
Also, do I understand the rules correctly that it is cheaper to build a depot/fort with and Engineer with an administrative rating of 6 than an Administrative Officer with an administrative rating of 6?
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by Joel Billings »

Yes, you'll need one in Missouri to help get initiative. This could be very expensive though since it's off rail.

Yes, engineers are always the cheapest, slightly better than admin rating 6 leaders. Engineers by definition have an admin rating of 5, but they get a bonus that makes them slightly better than the admin 6 leaders.
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by WarHunter »

The only reason to ever build a depot in one of your permanent states is if you want to influence the retreat path of your units
 
So if a region say Memphis, where the tooltip says, "Retreat Shiloh". I could influence a retreat to Corinth if i built a depot in there? How much influnce does it exert, % wise?
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by Joel Billings »

I can't give you a formula, but if it's in an adjacent area, it is substantial. In the case you just stated, I was betting it would be enough to make the difference and in the test I just ran it was. The computer tends to trace back on rail if possible toward a factory, and a depot even several areas away is a factor, but it's minor in that case. If the depot is adjacent, it is a big factor. I know If used it in Dalton to have the army in Chattanooga retreat that way instead of going to the adjacent factory in Knoxville.
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by WarHunter »

Thanks Joel [:)] 
I will seek to find those moments where a depot can be used, and be saddened when it fails.
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by Twotribes »

I moved the Union in to Kentucky rather then let the Confederates have it. But now even though I have 2 depots in the Army commander area, and when I had a TC he was with in 6 of that region ( at Cairo) I have never managed to get initiative in Kentucky and Grant seldom gets it in Paducah as well. Most of my western forces are with out initiative every turn. And there has been NO rebel raiding at all to effect the depots I have with these Army Commanders.

What am I doing wrong?
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WarHunter
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by WarHunter »

Twotribes,
Where & Who is your Western TC? What is his Command points, Rank and Administration rating? What month and year is it?
 
Who and where are your AC's in question? Do they have a depot with them? What is the Attack rating of your Army commanders?
 
 
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by Twotribes »

I have no TC, but when I did it was Fremont then Halleck. My AC are Grant and Buell ( I have no other qualified people for AC or TC.) I move Lyon to the East and have Mcdowell as the other AC, McCleelan is the TC. Scott died on turn 2.

Grant is in Paducah and Buell is in the region next to Bowling Green, can't think of which city that is. All through 61 and all through the winter till april 62 NO one in the west ever had initiative. Both AC's have 2 depots with them. And until May there was NO cavalry raids by the south at all.

If I have initiative again next turn I can make a losing effort to attack, Buell is a poor AC and so is McDowell. But I have no one else at all. Which is why I complained in the other thread.
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RE: do I have this right...

Post by WarHunter »

There are 4 important factors which determine if an AC is gonna get inititive. I'm guessing you are using the historical setup.

1st is the Attack rating. The numbers i am seeing are Grant with a 4 attack rating and Buell with a 2. This number is the part of the equation for the AC to get inititive.

2nd is the TC's help rating, which is based on what region he is currently deployed in. For the West, St. Louis is optimal as it gives a +4 to AC's, (A TC in Washington will give a 5 to AC's in range.)
3rd is the actual region your AC is in. If friendly you get a 5. If neutral or unfriendly without a depot 0. With depot 5.
The last important factor is the weather.

IF 1861 not winter (21) If Winter any year (28) If Non winter all other months (14).
This gives you the following equation.

Grant 4AR + 0TC help + 5 depot in neutralhostile region = 9 divide into,
If Winter any year (28) = 32% chance to activate.
If 1861 not winter (21) = 42% chane to activate
If Non winter all other months (14) = 64% chance to activate

If you had a TC that got his inititive, then you would have the following chance for Grant.
Grant 4AR + 4TC help + 5 depot in neutralhostile region = 13 diivide into,
If Winter any year (28) = 46% chance to activate.
If 1861 not winter (21) = 61% chane to activate
If Non winter all other months (14) = 92% chance to activate

The nice thing is You dont have to do the math, just make sure you know what the weather is, Attack rating of AC, If you need depots and did your TC get inititive.

Its very important to have at least 1 TC for the help bonus to any AC's in range.

I hope this helps in some way to clear the fog about inititve, its not always gonna be 100%. When it is celebrate!

Here is a screen shot of Lyon without TC help and McClellan with TC help.
Its 1861 nonwinter so they are using (21) as the base.








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“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
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