AE Released at what date?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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m10bob
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by m10bob »

Terminus is right, most of us play the AI, even when engaged in seperate PBEM games.
IMHO an ideal AI would
1.Have initial objectives pre-programmed,
2.Have secondary programmed objectives based on "phases" or game months,
3.Be responsive to enemy movement, and
4.Be cognizant of enemy aircraft zones, sub lairs, etc.

That said, it would be impossible to expect anything like this in a literal sense, especially when confined to an existing skeleton of programming.

I try to bring levity to the forum but am as eager as the next guy to see the AE package delivered to we gamers as good as is possible.

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Gem35
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Gem35 »

I am sticking by my "release by Christmas 08" and I am happy.
WitP isn't going anywhere and remains a great game by itself, take your time boys and get it right.
Thank you.[&o]
It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

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Hornblower
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Hornblower »

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Terminus is right, most of us play the AI, even when engaged in seperate PBEM games.
IMHO an ideal AI would
1.Have initial objectives pre-programmed,
2.Have secondary programmed objectives based on "phases" or game months,
3.Be responsive to enemy movement, and
4.Be cognizant of enemy aircraft zones, sub lairs, etc.

That said, it would be impossible to expect anything like this in a literal sense, especially when confined to an existing skeleton of programming.

I try to bring levity to the forum but am as eager as the next guy to see the AE package delivered to we gamers as good as is possible.

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Right, Better to get to be later and get it correct, then sooner and require patches … pic= We Were Expendable.. J. Ford ... good flick.. Sometimes the oldest are the best..
herwin
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by herwin »

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Your data may apply in Academia.
Discuss your estimates with professional technical writers or editors.
You will be suprised.


Are you claiming my estimate is high or low?

I used to do cost and workload analysis in industry. We usually estimated 8 man-hours per final finished page of documentation. There were vendors who lowballed at 6 hours per page.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
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langley
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by langley »

I'm with you as far as the release date goes anyway, if i that to put a date on the release it would be December 7th 2008.
But That is only my opinion!!!!

MJT
ORIGINAL: Gem35

I am sticking by my "release by Christmas 08" and I am happy.
WitP isn't going anywhere and remains a great game by itself, take your time boys and get it right.
Thank you.[&o]
"My God, I hope you don't blame me for this. I had no idea where you were."
Air Vice-marshal Pulford upon the loss of "Force Z"
Andy Mac
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Andy Mac »

As a volounteer project all I can say is I am putting in AT LEAST as many hours a week on AE as I am on my day job and that level of time cannot continue for ever so believe me we want it out there as much as the rest of you want it but there is no point is giving it to you with an AI that doesnt work, or land movement that goes screwy or new features that dont work.
 
We are going as fast as we can and it will be ready when its ready - no promises
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by jwilkerson »

ORIGINAL: m10bob

an ideal AI would
1.Have initial objectives pre-programmed,
2.Have secondary programmed objectives based on "phases" or game months,

Going in to this project, our intention was not to "change" the AI, but just to "morph" the existing AI system into the AE world. We planned on keeping the existing "AI Processor" in tact.

In the event, for various reasons we have decided this is not sufficient. While many aspects of the AI will remain unchanged, we are changing the land/Air processing more substantially than we originally intended (and this is the primary reason the game is delayed beyond our original expectations).

And for better or worse, we are exposing all of this "data" in the editor in the form of "scripts" (our slang term for them) or "Modules" (perhaps a more accurate term).

For instance Scripts, can be activated by date or be triggered by completion of a predecessor script. Scripts include sequenced objective lists, attacking units, defending units and other attributes.

There are many other details that we can talk about, but we would rather focus on getting it working first and talking later, but at least we can say that scenario desigers (a.k.a. MODDERS) can expect far more control over setting up their AI Scripts than they have now.

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Rainer
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Rainer »

Too high.
I don't question your experience, how can I.
But the average SW gaming company cannot afford those efforts.
Most SW companies publishing non-gaming SW can't afford it either (or better: are unwilling to).
To put it to rest: it depends on what documentation we are talking about, and what products/market.
WitP/AE
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Data base changes by Andy Mac October 16, 2012
Scen #1 Allied vs AI Level Hard Daily Turns
Art Mods by TomLabel and Reg
Topo Map by chemkid

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m10bob
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by m10bob »

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: m10bob

an ideal AI would
1.Have initial objectives pre-programmed,
2.Have secondary programmed objectives based on "phases" or game months,

Going in to this project, our intention was not to "change" the AI, but just to "morph" the existing AI system into the AE world. We planned on keeping the existing "AI Processor" in tact.

In the event, for various reasons we have decided this is not sufficient. While many aspects of the AI will remain unchanged, we are changing the land/Air processing more substantially than we originally intended (and this is the primary reason the game is delayed beyond our original expectations).

And for better or worse, we are exposing all of this "data" in the editor in the form of "scripts" (our slang term for them) or "Modules" (perhaps a more accurate term).

For instance Scripts, can be activated by date or be triggered by completion of a predecessor script. Scripts include sequenced objective lists, attacking units, defending units and other attributes.

There are many other details that we can talk about, but we would rather focus on getting it working first and talking later, but at least we can say that scenario desigers (a.k.a. MODDERS) can expect far more control over setting up their AI Scripts than they have now.



Good gosh Joe!!. If modders have access to ANY of the AI's "phases" or tactical modules*, this in itself would be a major development, since nobody has memory sufficient to memorize every game (mod) which would be possible now!!..

*(Nice terminology?)[8D]
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undercovergeek
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by undercovergeek »

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Sorry undercovergeek, I am just crabby today... been "one of those days" no offense, Sir.
I am an AI fan of the game and I understand you enjoy PBEM's, appologies for being "obtuse" earlier.

its ok, no need to apologise - like i said, i knew it was a nest before i poked it - i know the AIers far out number the PBEMers and i was on to a loser - it was just a light hearted 'just goddam release it'!!!!
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Grotius
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Grotius »

Joe, I applaud your approach to the AI. It's one of the things about AE that has me most intrigued. It's great that you've exposed it to the editor. Even I might try writing an AI mod.

And yeah, take your time to get it right. Although I can't think of a better way to honor the anniversary of Pearl Harbor than by firing up AE. I'm just rooting for the 67th anniversary rather than the 70th. :)
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Gem35
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Gem35 »

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Sorry undercovergeek, I am just crabby today... been "one of those days" no offense, Sir.
I am an AI fan of the game and I understand you enjoy PBEM's, appologies for being "obtuse" earlier.

its ok, no need to apologise - like i said, i knew it was a nest before i poked it - i know the AIers far out number the PBEMers and i was on to a loser - it was just a light hearted 'just goddam release it'!!!!
I'm with you friend, I'd love to have the honor of playing the new expansion but let's give the folks a chance to polish it.[:)]
I'd love to challenge you to a pbem when it is finished, along with plenty of other potential opponents.[:)]
This is going to be ALOT of fun.[&o]
It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

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tigercub
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by tigercub »

AI i am not trying to open a can of worms ,but he says [:D], to me the AI is for L plate drivers or people who dont have the time to play pbem games,myself i dont need it but will use it when AE comes out in november(my guess)for a few week or 2 to get a grasp of the new stuff.
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pompack
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by pompack »

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Your data may apply in Academia.
Discuss your estimates with professional technical writers or editors.
You will be suprised.


Are you claiming my estimate is high or low?

I used to do cost and workload analysis in industry. We usually estimated 8 man-hours per final finished page of documentation. There were vendors who lowballed at 6 hours per page.


Well, my experience is about five years out of date, but I agree with your man-hour estimates. I experienced higher overheads so I would multiple by 2.3 instead of 2.0 to convert direct cost to total cost.
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Gem35

I am sticking by my "release by Christmas 08" and I am happy.
WitP isn't going anywhere and remains a great game by itself, take your time boys and get it right.
Thank you.[&o]

You might be, I might be, all who play might be, Families Agh![8|]
Tophat1815
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Tophat1815 »

I was waiting hoping that we'd have an Origins surprise,but alas I have now come to the conclusion I'm wasting my time. Time to get my pbem opponent a turn! AE can come when it comes and I'll buy it but I'm not gonna hold my breath over it. I don't doubt the AE teams intentions but putting a fix on WiTp's AI doesn't strike me as a easy,simple or quick undertaking. If its September, I'll be surprised.By Christmas I'll be pleased. If its 1st or 2nd quarter 09' then I'm sure I'll be bitching with everyone else.[8D]
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by mlees »

ORIGINAL: tigercub

AI i am not trying to open a can of worms ,but he says [:D], to me the AI is for L plate drivers or people who dont have the time to play pbem games,myself i dont need it but will use it when AE comes out in november(my guess)for a few week or 2 to get a grasp of the new stuff.

What's an "L plate driver"?
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by Crimguy »

Student driver moniker in England and I'm sure elsewhere. It's on the license plate IIRC.
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m10bob
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by m10bob »

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

Student driver moniker in England and I'm sure elsewhere. It's on the license plate IIRC.


OH!..Like "L", for "learner"....
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rockmedic109
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RE: AE Released at what date?

Post by rockmedic109 »

Hello Forum.&nbsp; My name is Steve and I play against the AI.&nbsp; I started playing the AI when I first got the game.&nbsp; I played the AI in most of my games before WITP.&nbsp; And I will likely against the AI if there is an "after AE" game.&nbsp; Yes I have to admit to a little fear of getting my ass handed to me by taking up a PBEM game.&nbsp;
&nbsp;
But I am also not in the condition to PBEM.&nbsp; Work schedule was problematic but I am not working right now.&nbsp; Now, it is my health that makes me hesitant to get involved in any real long term planning.&nbsp; I have spent 5 weeks in Chemo and Radiation.&nbsp; About 12 hours ago, I returned home from a 23 day hospital stay with two abdominal surgeries and find myself without the strength or pain resistance to remain awake for more than a few hours at a time.&nbsp; In a month or two, I will be starting a six month chemo regimen that I am being led to believe will be far worse than the first chemo/radiation treatments {which were not bad at all}.&nbsp; Not exactly good PBEM material.
&nbsp;
So, please keep plugging away at the AI, like I know you are doing.&nbsp; With luck, AE will be finished as I get strong enough to truly enjoy this monster.&nbsp; I have not looked to the futuure for a game so much since Red Baron 2 or the original WITP.
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