Far too many KIA in BTR

Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich is a improved and enhanced edition of Talonsoft's older Battle of Britain and Bombing the Reich. This updated version represents the best simulation of the air war over Britain and the strategic bombing campaign over Europe that has ever been made.

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Augenstein
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Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Augenstein »

In the original game I think the ratio between KIA and shot down a/c (especially for the axis) was somewhat unrealistic with far too many pilots getting killed vs rescued. Has this been adressed in the upcoming game, can it be changed?

In my games I have gotten ratios of about 60% KIA, 40% WIA, and it should be the other way around, atleast. Besides where are the pilots that got away without a scratch, many/most Axis pilots parachuted and returned to combat the next day, usually I had pilots hospitalized for 30-100 days :S

Also, as a balancing factor could we add a slight chance (5% at most) of evading for Allied pilots shot down over Axis territory?
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Hard Sarge »

that has been changed some, not sure how well it worked out (depends on how you play with what you see) but Harley did some work on getting more WIA instead of KIA

it is on my to do list for the evaders, I was shocked at how many pilots/crews did evade and get back, but right now, the best we can hope for is a down the road goodie to work for


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von Shagmeister
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by von Shagmeister »

Ratio of KIA:WIA is much more realistic now. As a rough measure I'd say figures are now ~35% KIA, ~55% WIA, 10% uninjured. Pilots have a much better chance of living to fight another day after getting shot down.
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jcjordan
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by jcjordan »

If you end up including the evading, would it be possible to have a list of who is evading so we have an idea of how many even though they may be out of the war for several months based on where shotdown & such?
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Augenstein »

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

If you end up including the evading, would it be possible to have a list of who is evading so we have an idea of how many even though they may be out of the war for several months based on where shotdown & such?

I'll second this, an idea worth executing, if possible.

If we are going purely historical with this, the evaders would be sent back home when they returned. Atleast the 8th AAF had a custom of not letting the evaders back into combat because of security matters (the 8th AAF intelligence was very afraid of spies etc).
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Hard Sarge »

to be honest, it wasn't as wide spead as you may think, alot of pilots who evaded and came back, went right back to there units and started flying again

plus it depends when and where, after D-Day, alot of pilots just in hid in place or move to the sound of the guns, so were not that tied up with the underground

which if a list could be made, I would like it to include WIA also, but, this is a if the game has the data and it is in a area we can pull it from fine, if it is something that got to be coded to work, maybe not


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von Shagmeister
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by von Shagmeister »

If evaders are to be included (which I think they should) then chance of evading should be greatly influenced by geographical location. For BTR pilots baling out of the Reich proper should have very little chance evading whilst those doing so over occupied territories (ie populations sympathetic to the Allied cause) should have a much higher chance, particularly where fluid fronts exist.
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harley
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by harley »

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

If you end up including the evading, would it be possible to have a list of who is evading so we have an idea of how many even though they may be out of the war for several months based on where shotdown & such?

I'd have to say "No" to that. Missing in Action is MISSING in Action...

I have plans for improving pilot record keeping, and this will factor into it, but there will be no list of "guys we don't know where they are, but we expect back in a set number of days". There may be a list of "guys we lost but who turned up weeks or months later"
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Hard Sarge »

that is part of the hassle with Evaders, you don't know they got away


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Hard Sarge
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Hard Sarge »

But back to the first part of the post

here is a shot of my last game, you can see how the pilot losses broke down in this one

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jjjanos
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by jjjanos »

Guys who were shot down over enemy-held territory and made it back to their units generally were sent out of the ETO if they had help from the local population and the area was still enemy-occupied. PoWs never went back to the ETO. Can't remember the source, but it was a history of the U.S. Army Air Corps from end of WWI to formation as an independent branch.
 
Reasons were simple - civilian reprisals and the potential for revealing resistance cells. If Captain Johnny America was shot down over Alsace, evaded with the help of Francois Blanc, then if Captain America were to be captured, he could give-up Francois. Bad consequences for Francois, regardless of whether he was active in the resistance or just striking his own little blow for Libre!
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von Shagmeister
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by von Shagmeister »


Here's a look at casualties in BTR (Overlord II Allied AI, Axis Human) after 3 turns

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harley
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by harley »

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

Here's a look at casualties in BTR (Overlord II Allied AI, Axis Human) after 3 turns

Am I good, or am I good?

Allies - 5 unharmed, 7 wounded (1-100 days, a critical hit is a kill) 30 Missing (presume captured, but losses over sea can also remain MIA forever) and 20 KIA

Axis - 5 Unharmed, 15 wounded (1-100 days) and 11 KIA.

perfect.. especially for the defender (breakdown is similar in Eagle Day)
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Once Joey
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Once Joey »

...which then (thankfully) brings me to a point I have often wondered about. How much Intellegence is gained by the Axis/Luftwaffe when a downed Allied Pilot (especially a Major) is captured? Does this have a minor hit on any Intel/Ground Forces? Probably not much effect, but I was simply wondering...
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by Hard Sarge »

you don't want to know how much time I have spent trying to input all the extra little intell data into each pilots data file, it is really HARD and and a really small place to work in
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von Shagmeister
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RE: Far too many KIA in BTR

Post by von Shagmeister »

ORIGINAL: harley

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

Here's a look at casualties in BTR (Overlord II Allied AI, Axis Human) after 3 turns

Am I good, or am I good?

Allies - 5 unharmed, 7 wounded (1-100 days, a critical hit is a kill) 30 Missing (presume captured, but losses over sea can also remain MIA forever) and 20 KIA

Axis - 5 Unharmed, 15 wounded (1-100 days) and 11 KIA.

perfect.. especially for the defender (breakdown is similar in Eagle Day)

Indeed, now you've re-jigged the figures they are far more realistic.

The number of KIA pilots was always one of my main gripes with the original game. For the defending player, both in BOB and BTR, conserving your pilots is a must, they are one of your most precious resources.

I think that this must rank as one of the most important improvements to the game (that isn't bug related).
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