EF, EFII, and this game

John Tiller's Campaign Series exemplifies tactical war-gaming at its finest by bringing you the entire collection of TalonSoft's award-winning campaign series. Containing TalonSoft's West Front, East Front, and Rising Sun platoon-level combat series, as well as all of the official add-ons and expansion packs, the Matrix Edition allows players to dictate the events of World War II from the tumultuous beginning to its climatic conclusion. We are working together with original programmer John Tiller to bring you this updated edition.

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Charles2222
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EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Charles2222 »

I have gathered some odds and ends about this game and the two aforementioned, and I am wondering a few things.

First of all I would like to know if the patches for EFII are easily available (I think I could manage this, but just if anyone happens to know)?

Secondly I heard someone talk about supply in this game. Didn't EFII have this also, or does this game use something of a better system in that regard? What I mean by that, the SPWAW game had something of supply, in the form of the supply trucks, but that was only a very crude level of supply for ammunition. In that game all vehicles had infinite petrol and so forth, and so I wonder if this new game gets more into detailed supply, and if so what, because this game often just looks like SPWAW with something of a tilted look.

My problem is I have EFII and found it rather strange originally so I played it very little (it seemed very tedious too for some reason), probably because I hardly touched the manual. I might find myself more willing to do so now, but I have the problem of not having any patches presently, and also if I'm not entirely sure I like the game. I don't want to buy this one either just for haviing everything up to date, or the other games which I may find less interesting, and so I wonder about this supply issue in particular.
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MartNick
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by MartNick »

I would think all of the original Talonsoft patches for the Campaign Series are available on patch download sites.

The supply system in this game is not overly complicated, and doesn't need to be, but in saying that you can't ignore it as you won't win with all your units out of supply.

You may want to keep an eye on what happens with the CS series, as Matrix do appear to have a strong commitment to expand the series, and most importantly listening to customer comments on ways to improve the game the way we want to play it. EFII is still a good stand alone game but the Matrix release has already improved upon it.

Hope this helps.

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Charles2222
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Charles2222 »

MartNick: Thanks. Was it that EFII really had no supply at all, and that every unit had infinite supply? Just from what little I gathered there seems to be some distinct difference, which probably changed with WF, which I never bought. I did find that way of limiting shots very peculiar and I think it contributed to me shelving it, to say nothing of my likely not having read the manual hardly at all. I think I will have to put EFII with patches onto the computer and see how she flies, and make sure to read the manual around the supply and shot rate categories, therefore having a better idea whether this was just too irksome for me or not.
 
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MartNick
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by MartNick »

Hi

I can't remember how different EF and EFII was re supply, but EFII WF and RS all have the same system which is supply dependent. A units firing ability and morale is effected if it out of supply, but the method of supply is not mind bending to control. CS can be playing without reading the whole manual, a lot of it is intuitive, but I still find little things now and then hidden in there.

If your going to reinstall EFII you may get some installation/patching problems on XP and Vista machines, but I think if you search around on these forums there are work arounds. The Matrix version has updated the games engine to work with XP and Vista.
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Jason Petho
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Jason Petho »

1) How does supply and ammo work and effect my units?

A Low-on-Supply combat unit that attacks using Direct Fire will only attack a number of times equal to its Strength Points divided by 2, fractions rounded up (keep in mind that such a unit normally is allowed a number of attacks equal to the number of Strength Points it has). A Low-on-Supply artillery (indirect fire) unit cannot attack (this actually represents that battery not receiving proper fire orders, or a breakdown in communications or it being used to support other units in a nearby battle). A Low-on-Supply HQ is unable to provide supply to other units under its command (HQ or normal combat units). Note that normal, "ground pounder" units are never out of supply; such a unit that is low on supply can still attack, albeit at reduced effectiveness (exception: indirect fire units).

2) How do Headquarters (HQ's) provide supply?

At the start of each friendly turn, a supply check is made for each friendly unit that fired in the preceding turn. This is a "percentile" roll against that sides "Ammo" level (turn on the Unit List to display this number; hot key "U"). A "percentile" dr equal to or less than the friendly Ammo level means that the unit does not run low on supply for that turn. A "percentile" dr greater than the friendly Ammo level and the combat unit can then check to see if it can be resupplied by its HQ. The closer the unit is to its "parent" HQ, the greater the chance that this second supply check will be successful - from 100% if the unit is stacked with its HQ, to 50% at the "range" listed for that HQ in the Parameter data. Beyond the 50% range the chance of resupply continues drops off. However, if the unit's parent HQ itself is found to be "low on supply" it cannot provide supply to any of its combat units on that turn. Note that a HQ is always "low on supply" on any turn after it has moved (representing it being out of communications for a period). Otherwise, each HQ also does a supply check at the start of its turn.

And there is an excellent article on Command and Control here:

http://www.wargamer.com/articles/westfront_command.asp



Hope the helps
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by CJMello63 »

Damn, 1998. The good old days.
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Jason Petho »

ORIGINAL: CJMello63

Damn, 1998. The good old days.

Ah, like scotch. It gets better with age!

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CJMello63
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by CJMello63 »

I tell my wife that, it makes her feel better.
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Missouri_Rebel »

ORIGINAL: CJMello63

it makes her feel better.

The Scotch?

[:)]
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**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford
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junk2drive
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by junk2drive »

Back on subject...
 
Hi Charles, I know of you from SPWAW and Shrapnel forums. I have played SP and CM for a few years and Matrix's Panzer Command. I found Rising Sun in a bargain bin back when I was learning SPWAW. At that time I thought RS to be too abstract and fiddley.
 
Nowadays, my eyes are older. I found myself playing the 3D games above at a view level very similar to the isometric view in CS. SP is hard to see and the top down view limits the detail of the units.
CS has tons more units and theatres than CM or PC.
CS is very different than SP. It is more like a miniatures game with dice rolls deciding the outcome. There is only one level of suppression, called disrupted. Supply is different and checked every turn.
It is very abstract is some respects and very detailed in others. You make decisions at a higher level than SP but not quite at operational or strategic, and also at the combat level.
 
IOW it is it's own game and can't really be compared to the games that I have played.
 
google searching I found a PDF RS manual and a demo for Divided Ground (the Arab Israeli War version of the CS).
The DG demo at least gives you an idea of the mechanics. Turn the bases on to better see the units.
 
I have paper versions of the RS and DG manuals and PDF of the others. IMO you have to stick with these games a while to understand them. I re-read the manuals and PBEM with mentors. And get mad and swear off the series, lol, then go at it again.
 
I still have trouble looking at one tank in a hex and imagining a platoon of tanks, or three tanks in a hex is a company of them. I'm still learning the command structure and radius as well as some other nuances.
 
Hope this helps.
Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."
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Krec
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Krec »

hi junk,

i understand where your coming from. Once you get the hang of the game its pretty good. this game is different then say sp in the way units must stay together in order to stay a cohesive fighting force. you really must plan you areas of attack carfully and stay within you HQ s range of command , so if units become disrupted they have a chance to recover. if they are not in ROC they will stay disruptive and that hurts there combat value in as they cant move toward an enemy and attacking value is halved. so basically keep units in ROC and try and keep units from becoming disrupted. On the otherhand you want to disrupt, surround, and capture on the attack. thats the key. there are a few tricks to doing it but basically you must disrupt all units in the hex , surround , then assault. the player that does this best is usally the victor. the deeper you dive into this baby the better it gets, still needs afew tweeks but overall its a great wargame and alot of thanks to matrix for making the series into one game. i am tryin to get my sp buddies into it.........gl
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

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Charles2222
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Charles2222 »

Alright, I do have XP, but so many things have worked on it I don't anticipate a problem there.
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Charles2222
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RE: EF, EFII, and this game

Post by Charles2222 »

Thanks for your help. I guess the impression I got was that for what I understood of the game it was just basically SP with a different angle, and then for those bits I didn't understand, well that was where the differences from SP lie [:D]. Some games just take on different periods of interest. I know I could have quit CIV4 as the first hour or two of it really set me back like nothing I could remember and I just about quit it, but a couple of hours later came back and everything was just fine (only for me to much later wear out the game to the point of playing it very late into it, for many months, where it didn't fail to CTD. Now except for the off chance I play a scenario it is over and I'm largely playing CIV3 again).

It would be a bit peculiar to load up EFII and really play it this time and not buy this game, and then buy CEaW instead. I am leaning in that direction right now, but it's all for naught if EFII won't work when I load it. In any event if EFII doesn't picque my interest, should I get it to load, I know this series of games won't interest me, since EF is that best part of it for me.

I glanced at the manual the other day. I can't believe they have so many battles possible in that one campaign they have shown there. It must be a battle every two or three days for the length of the eastern front war; wow!
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