LOS during initials setup

[WABAC]

One thing I have wondered about since Red Storm is "normalized" visibility for line of sight calculations during the initial setup.

This is based on my amateur assumption that the staff on scene would have access to reasonably recent engineer and cavalry reconnaissance, and perhaps even experience from staff rides during peacetime, if not access to forty year's worth of staff rides.

On the Pact side there would be whatever was collected by the Military Liaison Missions. Not to mention satellite topo maps and staff to interpret them before hand.

Secondly, the AI would need to have access to the same LOS information for its initial calculations to keep it fair.

[CapnDarwin]

Are you looking for something beyond the MCOO? I am not sure I understand what you are looking for.

[WABAC]

Are you looking for something beyond the MCOO? I am not sure I understand what you are looking for.

It would be the initial setup as if normal daylight visibility was in effect. I seldom look at the MCOO, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with ctrl-l and shift-click line of sight.

After thinking about it some more, it could be something the scenario designer could turn on or off.

It's not real high on my list. It's the kind of thing that pops into my head when I'm thinking about what the AI "thinks" about when it thinks about visibility, and line of sight--if it thinks about those things at all.

[CapnDarwin]

I think my brain finally got what you are asking for. Are wanting a maximum visual LOS regardless of the time of day and vehicle equipment to check the map with? If so, I can work up a JIRA for this, as I see its usefulness now.

[WABAC]

I think my brain finally got what you are asking for. Are wanting a maximum visual LOS regardless of the time of day and vehicle equipment to check the map with? If so, I can work up a JIRA for this, as I see its usefulness now.

Yes. That's it. I'm glad it has been working around in the back of your head all this time.

I don't know how plausible it would have been at the time for a unit commander to have that sort of intel in every case. But you have people you can talk to about that.

[IronMikeGolf]

I don't know how plausible it would have been at the time for a unit commander to have that sort of intel in every case. But you have people you can talk to about that.

At that time, not plausible at all. In that era, terrain analysis was about trafficability which got translated into movement rates and maneuver corridor capacity. That analysis was done at battalion and above.

IIRC, there was a Bde at NTC circa 2005-2010 that used a COTS surveying tool to map LOS for a deliberate attack. OPFOR battle position was templated and then confirmed by deep recon. Used the tool and a route was planned that was in deadspace, which enabled a flank attack on the OPFOR BP. The Good Idea Fairy actually delivered a good idea. That's the earliest instance I know of HQ planning considering LOS. In my experience in the era of the game, deadspace was mapped on foot by defending weapon crews. In the attack, map recon at company or platoon level adjusted when you got close to the objective.

[WABAC]

I don't know how plausible it would have been at the time for a unit commander to have that sort of intel in every case. But you have people you can talk to about that.

At that time, not plausible at all. In that era, terrain analysis was about trafficability which got translated into movement rates and maneuver corridor capacity. That analysis was done at battalion and above.

IIRC, there was a Bde at NTC circa 2005-2010 that used a COTS surveying tool to map LOS for a deliberate attack. OPFOR battle position was templated and then confirmed by deep recon. Used the tool and a route was planned that was in deadspace, which enabled a flank attack on the OPFOR BP. The Good Idea Fairy actually delivered a good idea. That's the earliest instance I know of HQ planning considering LOS. In my experience in the era of the game, deadspace was mapped on foot by defending weapon crews. In the attack, map recon at company or platoon level adjusted when you got close to the objective.

Thank you for the education. Always appreciated.