autocannon performance

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autocannon performance

Post by Tcao »

I am wondering if the Dev team has any conclusion regarding this issue?

"I feel that the auto cannon is too weak, This is probably because the ammunition expended by autocannon during the engagement are very low. M3 engage a soft skin target (2S1) , in 5 minutes there were 5 engagements
but the ammo expense are: 5 bursts
only 15 rounds of 25mm APDS?
3 rounds every minutes?"
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Re: autocannon performance

Post by IronMikeGolf »


1. I am assuming this is from the scenario The Great Escape
2. We don't actually know the target platform counts. We see reports of 3 or 4 x 2S1 from a battery of 6 and 3 x MT-LBu from a full strength of 2. What we don't have is if that was one battery in that hex or more. We do know that the target unit for the first 4 engagements was a SPARTY unit until a platform was killed at 2200 hrs. At 2201, it was a Recce unit reported as consisting of 2 x MT-LBu. But a 2S1 battery only has two of those. My best guess, given the info above, is the SPARY battery was down to 1 x 2S1 and 1 or 2 x MT-LBu.
3. Both units are on par for Training. Readiness is good for the Brads, but unknown for the EGs. These go to Combat Effectiveness Ratio (an internal and undocumented "quality comparison" between units) and the unit quality, just based on Training, which is the greatest contributor, is about even. So not likely there's a buff to things for that.
4. The problem is not the strength of the chain gun. It has overmatch for frontal armor vs both target types and there is no range attenuation. In open terrain with good visibility, you have a high Pk (Probability of Kill) with one burst.
5. Let's look at ammo consumption. A "burst" is not 3 rounds. It's 6. Your screen cap only shows ammo for one Brad. At the unit level, there's 3% consumption of critical ammo. Assuming the other Brad has not shot any TOWs and 25mm was full up before the first engagement at 2158 hrs, that means both Brads shot 5 bursts, or 180 rounds.
6. The M242 is a high rate of fire weapon. That means, the baseline is three bursts (I'll use bursts and shot interchangeably) per engagement. The Combat Effectiveness comparison of both units likely doesn't decrease that though, so we need to explain why the ammo consumption rate looks like it is an average of one burst per Brad per engagement, though we don't know from what is presented above that's truly the case.
7. So far, this does look like an unreasonable result. But wait, there's more!
8. One huge difference between Red Storm and Southern Storm is in Red Storm, direct fire is done truly at a unit vs unit level, with lots of simplification and aggregation. Every platform of the target unit is assumed engageable, and combat is resolved as type vs type at the platform level. In Southern Storm, we do this on a platform vs platform level and the starting point is which specific platforms in the target unit can each platform the attacking unit can spot. So, first we have to know an ENY unit is "over there" and then we do another round of spotting to determine what each shooter can see.
9. Up to this point, it's unlikely anything itemized for this series of engagements (unit/platform type vs unit/platform type) results in any buffs/debuffs for either shooter or target. But when it comes to target acquisition by shooting platforms (of which there are only 2 and a significant factor is the attacking unit is moving), we are most definitely in a condition here where there are debuffs on the shooters. First, here is a summation of platform vs platform spotting, with things expressed from the shooter's context:
a. The baseline is both shooter and target are in Screen/On Call/Resupply/Barrage, meaning no buff/debuff
b. Shooter in Hold is a buff to spotting
c. Shooter moving is a debuff. Lowest to highest debuff is Deliberate, Assault, Hasty.
d. Target in Hold is a debuff
d. Target movement is a buff. Lowest to highest buff is Deliberate, Assault, Hasty
10. No, data, but it's reasonable to assume the target battery is in either On Call or Barrage. The shooting unit is in Deliberate, so there is a spotting debuff.
11. Next, there is weather. Looking at the range of visibility available for the scenario, I see it ranges from 20 to 75%. Obviously, this matters, as anything less than 100% is a debuff. The presented data lacks this.
12. Brads have thermals. We give a buff to spotting if the target has fired within the past 30 minutes (hot barrel is quite a beacon in a thermal sight). This state is unknown.
13. Items 9-12 above only go to what can a shooting platform see and at this point we have a significant movement debuff for the shooter and quite possibly an even larger visibility debuff.
14. The next step is of those I can see, what can I kill. The last step to making a target list is of those I can kill, what can kill me. The fallback list is who can I kill. In this case, the fallback list gets used, as neither target has AP or HEAT capability.
15. We do fire distribution. This is rather a degenerate case, since we have only two shooters and at most three target platforms. Neither target platform type is threatening, since Brads are armored and neither has sufficient AP or HEAT strength to defeat the Brad's armor. What we don't know from the Radio Log is the distribution of fire and that is by design. A big item is we limit things to two shooters per target. We do not optimize this, and that is by design. If you feel the need, ask "Why?"
15. Now we come to combat resolution. At this point lots of characteristics about "can I hit the target" come up. The primary one is Cover and Concealment. Hex 1405 has a 59% Concealment rating. That results in a 42% debuff on the Ph (Probability of Hit) resulting from all other factors, like movement state, fire control system and stabilization buffs, and weapon accuracy.
16. Next is the effect of Cover on Pk (Probability of Kill if you get a hit) for the weapon/munition. These targets likely get buffs for Cover and being in a protected posture (posture is unknown from presented data). That buffs the target protection into definite die rolling territory vs the M242. Specifically, 58% Pk vs the 2S1 and 66% Pk vs the MT-LB.
17. So, a kill is basically Ph x Pk. In both cases, we're looking at 24%. We're looking (probably) at 10 shots taken. 1 kill with an aggregate 24% kill rate seems reasonable.
18. "But the M242 is a Fast Fire Rate weapon!" Yes. The data presented doesn't tell us how many shots were taken. The platform level spotting happens for each burst. The M242 can fire up to 3 bursts in this unit matchup. We don't tell you Players in the radio dialog about things like platform vs platform spotting and this is by design. I suspect a significant contributor is the weather at the time of each engagement, but the data about that is missing here.
16. We also don't tell you details about misses. This is also by design. You actually get more information than a Battalion/Brigade/Regiment HQs would get real world. You'd get an initial contact report and later, enemy casualties summarized over time at the conclusion of engaging a unit. So, compared to the radio log above, there would be one report, not 5. Also, you get to watch the battle unfold as it happens, and not 5-10 minutes after each event. That is something you have to deal with in a real Command Post.

Here we have a section of Brads that engage a remnant of a SPARTY battery located in complex terrain. Over 4 minutes, they manage to kill a howitzer. Based on my experience of over decade of anti-armor stuff, including gunnery training for Brad crews and platoons, this strikes me as entirely reasonable. In complex terrain, you do have to get close and root people out.
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