AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Rule the Waves III is a simulation of naval ship design and construction, fleet management and naval warfare from 1890 to 1970. and will place you in the role of 'Grand Admiral' of a navy from the time when steam and iron dominated warship design up to the missile age.
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vonwike1
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AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by vonwike1 »

One playthrough in particular, I'm playing Japan. Ship design is dedicated to maximize torpedo output. A cruiser class in particular, emphasizes speed and torps. I fill the seas with fast advanced torps, the little black blips blister through the surf, fanning out, to leave no patch of ocean uncovered.

All for naught! The enemy AI dodges, swerves and pitches like Han Solo evading Tie Fighters in an asteroid field. Somehow, the enemy sees and predicts every trajectory, then with the agility of a ballet dancer, flit away from contact.

Perhaps I exaggerate a tad, but not much. I seldom see enemy torps; the enemy spots mine with eagle eyes. In relation, the consistency of my watery warheads threading a blob of enemy and somehow missing a single hull, is impressive in its own right. Couldn't accomplish that if the crew tried!

Anyway, fast torp ships don't have a long life span when 31000 ton, 28 knot, gun-bristling BC terrors roll in. Incredible to watch the monstrosities out run my slender ships built for speed.

I imagine the AI gets a buff to avoid torp cheez. Still LOVE the game!! lol. I think I'm playing too much and need sleep...
WilliamMiller
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by WilliamMiller »

I am glad you enjoy the game @vonwike1 - thanks!

Just a quick note: The code for the AI only reacts to your ship maneuvers; it never, ever reacts to actual torps in the water.

Thanks!
Last edited by WilliamMiller on Sun May 28, 2023 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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brdxman
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by brdxman »

Second the swerve-ness of the AI, its very impressive.
Thanks for clarification and the info Mr. Miller.
WilliamMiller
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by WilliamMiller »

brdxman wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 1:33 am Second the swerve-ness of the AI, its very impressive.
Thanks for clarification and the info Mr. Miller.
Thanks @brdxman!
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varsovie
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by varsovie »

WilliamMiller wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 1:31 am I am glad you enjoy the game @vonwike1 - thanks!

Just a quick note: The code for the AI only reacts to your ship maneuvers; it never, ever reacts to actual torps in the water.

Thanks!
That just proves that you have created skynet after all.
vonwike1
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by vonwike1 »

WilliamMiller wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 1:31 am I am glad you enjoy the game @vonwike1 - thanks!

Just a quick note: The code for the AI only reacts to your ship maneuvers; it never, ever reacts to actual torps in the water.

Thanks!
I am compelled to revisit this topic. As to the AI reacting to torps in the water or identified launches. I definitely observe AI ships react to torps as they approach, and take supernatural evasion maneuvers. A simple example that happens earlier on. I have fast cruisers hand railing a line of Bs. The Bs continue on sometimes tolerating my presence, other times they make a 180 as I get close but I am able to mirror the movement. Only when a torp is on its way does the AI ship radically change course to avoid the torp. Later in 1920s when my torp tech is pretty high and I have between 8 to 16 launchers on ships with fast, long reaching torps, the enemy flotilla keeps formation until torps are in the water then they scatter faster then roaches in the light. The evasion rarely starts with my movements, largely when torps are tracking in.

Not trying to be contentious, just that I've played probably +40 hours now with multiple playthroughs and this is the way with torp evasion as I witness it.

Also, not sure how the "hit" box works under the hood. When my little blips do manage to connect to the ship sprite, they often pass through the ship sprite. Obviously the blip is a lot bigger in relation to the ship sprite than an actual torpedo is to a real ship. This is for our viewing pleasure, I'm sure. So, the graphic representation of blip connecting with hull does not always mean a hit, I'm guessing.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the game. We players like to complain, that's all.
WilliamMiller
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by WilliamMiller »

From feedback early in the game series, the ship images are enlarged (IIRC about 200-250%) to make them easier to see without having to zoom extremely far in; so indeed you may have a torp track pass through a ship image w/o a hit.
As far as the AI 'dodging' torp tracks, I can only repeat what I stated earlier; it does not take any note of torpedo tracks on the map, there is no code to do that in the game. <shrug>

Thanks for the kind words, and I am glad that you enjoy the game.
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Primarchx
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by Primarchx »

WilliamMiller wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:13 pm From feedback early in the game series, the ship images are enlarged (IIRC about 200-250%) to make them easier to see without having to zoom extremely far in; so indeed you may have a torp track pass through a ship image w/o a hit.
As far as the AI 'dodging' torp tracks, I can only repeat what I stated earlier; it does not take any note of torpedo tracks on the map, there is no code to do that in the game. <shrug>

Thanks for the kind words, and I am glad that you enjoy the game.
Yet I imagine you do have torpedo evasion logic for the AI. Radically change course every so often when enemy ships that carry torps are at x range on y course for so long?
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by WilliamMiller »

Primarchx wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:43 am
WilliamMiller wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:13 pm From feedback early in the game series, the ship images are enlarged (IIRC about 200-250%) to make them easier to see without having to zoom extremely far in; so indeed you may have a torp track pass through a ship image w/o a hit.
As far as the AI 'dodging' torp tracks, I can only repeat what I stated earlier; it does not take any note of torpedo tracks on the map, there is no code to do that in the game. <shrug>

Thanks for the kind words, and I am glad that you enjoy the game.
Yet I imagine you do have torpedo evasion logic for the AI. Radically change course every so often when enemy ships that carry torps are at x range on y course for so long?
Yes, the AI (after it guesses/estimates a launch has been made) will take evasive actions for a period of time based on its best estimate of time-to-target from the launch point that it inferred. It will also (occasionally) make course changes at random even if it is not 'confident' that a launch has occurred, especially when closer to enemy that are known to possess torpedoes.
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vonwike1
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by vonwike1 »

[/quote]

Yes, the AI (after it guesses/estimates a launch has been made) will take evasive actions for a period of time based on its best estimate of time-to-target from the launch point that it inferred. It will also (occasionally) make course changes at random even if it is not 'confident' that a launch has occurred, especially when closer to enemy that are known to possess torpedoes.
[/quote]

AAAAHHH. That explains much! Thank you. Maybe apples and oranges what I was depicting, yet the end result is mostly the same. Enemy ships avoid torps in some form or fashion, which is perfectly logical, though not the actual torp, per your code. I like to think you've created a powerful AI that recalls past battles with me, analyzes my tendencies and adapts SOP accordingly!
cwemyss
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by cwemyss »

I'm 100% guessing, but it's possible that what's driving people nuts may be that both the "Destroyers launch torpedo" logic and the "oh crap that destroyer might launch" logic are making the exact same calculations. That leads to the AI knowing it only needs to evade when there's a high probability a torpedo is in the water, otherwise it can roll along fat dumb and happy. As soon as a destroyer enters launch parameters, that by default means the AI target knows it's in the same launch parameters... thus a perception that it's got some special knowledge and is avoiding the *actual* torpedoes.
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WLBjork
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Re: AI Torpedo Evasion...Impressive!

Post by WLBjork »

Absolutely.

You get into a short range knife fight (at night or in poor visibility) and the AI can't handle it.

I recently had a battle spawn in heavy fog. My destroyers were pretty much on top of the enemy BBs and torpedoes were flying rapidly. Heck, even my BBs pulled tight turns and at least one of them launched a torpedo as well.

9 torpedoes hit the AI, sinking 4 BBs and a DD.

Sadly, the AI carrier strike killed one of my BBs as they fled. Well, I wasn't hanging around after that mass of 'torpedo hit' messages so they could return the favour!
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