A book about real world RTW

Rule the Waves III is a simulation of naval ship design and construction, fleet management and naval warfare from 1890 to 1970. and will place you in the role of 'Grand Admiral' of a navy from the time when steam and iron dominated warship design up to the missile age.
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RFalvo69
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A book about real world RTW

Post by RFalvo69 »

Due to an amazing coincidence, I read this book back in 2015 (IIRC) just before I bought the original RTW. It has everything I then met in the game: thech development; "looking" at what you neighoroughs are doing; preparing for the wrong war (Italy was about to go to war against France - no really...); political meddling; being fired...

I even fired a mail to NWS to ask them if the book had been part of their research but apparently they weren't aware of it.

Notice how the book stops at the beginning of WWI. It isn't about a war, it is about creating a fleet for your country's next war - and the consequent ulcers. Absolutely recommended.
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eddieballgame
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by eddieballgame »

Thank you for this information.
prophetinreverse
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by prophetinreverse »

Another excellent book very similar to this is Dreadnought by Robert K. Massie. Cannot recommend it enough!
https://www.amazon.com/Dreadnought-Brit ... 076&sr=8-1
varsovie
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by varsovie »

I would also suggest:

The Rise And Fall of British Naval Mastery
By Paul Kennedy

It is Brit-focused and goes way back from RTW timeline, but it covers how economics is the real Rex Maris.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by cwemyss »

I'm currently reading "The Pre Dreadnought Revolution" by Warren Berry. Great chronicle of the development between HMS Warrior (1860) and HMS Dreadnought (1906) going from "let's put screws on a 3-decker" through a wild variety of monitors, citadel ships, and turret ships, to finally settling on the semi-standardized pre-dreads we start with in RTW. Heavily-to-exclusivley RN focused, which means sadly a lot of the *really* crazy designs are skipped. But a really good read.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by Orffen »

Just popped in to say I love this thread. Keep it coming!
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by kvob »

To accompany the game release, I'm currently reading The Grand Fleet: Warship Design And Development 1906-1922
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Fleet-Wa ... Q7BY&psc=1
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by supswar »

I'm really glad to see they also included a bibliography in their manual. I'm always vaguely wary when they don't point to documentation for hardcore games.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by WilliamMiller »

supswar wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:21 pm I'm really glad to see they also included a bibliography in their manual. I'm always vaguely wary when they don't point to documentation for hardcore games.
We need to update the bibiography 'cause we did have some newer sources; but those listed are excellent ones and are very much recommended.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by WilliamMiller »

Here is an additional bibliography of books used for RTW3, categorized by our own John Smith from NWS:

Warship and Naval Weapons development
The U.S. Navy, 1890-1990, One Hundred Years of Sea Power, George W. Baer
Aircraft Carriers - A history of carrier Aviation and it influence on world events Vol. I, 1909-1945, Norman Polmar
American & British Aircraft Carrier Development 1919-1941, Tomas C. Hone, Norman Friedman, Mark D. Mandeles
The Fast Carriers, The Forging of an Air Navy, Clark C. Reynolds
British Battleships, 1919-1939, R. A. Burt
The Aircraft Carrier Story, 1908-1945, Guy Robbins
Titans of the Sea, the Development and Operations of Japanese and American Carrier Task Forces during WWII, James H Belote and William M. Belote
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1994, Norman Friedman
A Century of Carrier Aviation, the Evolution of Ships and Shipborne Aircraft, David Hobbs

Air power
Why Air Forces Fail, the Anatomy of Defeat, Robin Highman and Stephen J. Harris, editors
Catapult Aircraft, Seaplanes that Flew from Ships Without Flight Decks, Leo Marriot
The History of Dive Bombing, Peter C. Smith
The Narrow Margin, the Battle of Britain and the Rise of Air Power, 1930-1949, Derek Wood & Derek Dempster
A History of the Luftwaffe, John Killen

Electronic warfare
The History of US Electronic Warfare, Vol. I and Vol. II, Alfred Price
Confound and Destroy, 100 Group and the Bomber Support Campaign, Martin Streetly
Missile era Naval Theory and Tactics
Fleet Tactics, Theory and Practice, Capt. Wayne P. Hughes, Jr., USN (Ret)
The Battle for the Falklands, Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins
The Leverage of Seapower, The Strategic Advantage of Navies in War, Collin S. Gray

Between the wars
Military innovation in the Interwar Period, Williamson Murray and Allan R. Millet, ed.
Warships After Washington, The Development of the Five Major Fleets 1922-1930, John Jordan

Histories - Pacific
Victory at Sea, World War II in the Pacific, James F. Dunnigan and Albert A. Nofi
The Air War, 1939-1945, R. J. Overy
The Pacific War, World War II and the Japanese, 1931-1945, Saburo Ienaga
The Thousand Mile War, World War II in the Alaska and Aleutians, Brian Garfield
The Conquering Tide, War in the Pacific Islands 1942-1944, Ian W. Toll
The Imperial Japanese Navy (1941-1945), Paul S. Dull
Japanese Destroyer Captain, Capt. Tameichi Hara, with Fred Sato and Roger Pineau
Eagle Against the Sun, The American War with Japan, Ronald H. Spector
Quadalcanal, The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle, Richard B. Frank
Quadalcanal, The Carrier Battles, Carrier Operations in the Solomons Aug.-Oct. 1942, Eric Hammel
Quadalcanal, Starvation Island, Erric Hammel
Quadalcanal, Edwin P. Hoyt
The Glory of the Solomons, Edwin P. Hoyt
The Battle for Quadalcanal, Samuel B. Griffith II, Brig. Gen. USMC (Ret.)
Above and Beyond 1941-1945, Wilbur H. Morrison
The Big "E", the stirring Saga of the U.S.S. Enterprise and the men who sailed her, Commander Edward P. Stafford USN
History of Warships, From Ancient Time to the Twenty-First Century, James L. George
Queen of the Flat-tops, the U.S.S. Lexington, Stanley Johnston

Histories - European Theatre
Strategy for Defeat, the Luftwaffe 1939-1945, Williamson Murray
The Disastrous Fall and Triumphant Rise of the Fleet Air Arm from 1912 to 1945, Henry 'Hank' Adlam
The Naval War Against Hitler, Donald Macintyre
The German Navy in World War Two, Edward P. Von der Porten
The Military Errors of World War Two, Kenneth Macksey
The First World War, John Keegan

Histories - Med
Struggle for the Middle Sea, The Great Navies at War in the Mediterranean Theatre, 1940-1945, Vincent P. O'Hara
A Short History of Air Power, James L. Stokesbury
Castles of Steel, Rabert K. Massie
The First Air War, 1914-1918, Lee Kennet
Hitler's Mediterranean Gamble, The North African and Mediterranean Campaigns in WWII, Douglas Porch

Histories - Korea
The Naval Air War in Korea, Richard P Hallion
The Sea War in Korea, Malcolm W. Cagle, Commander, USN, Frank A Manson, Commander, USN
The U.S. Navy in the Korean War, Edward J. Marolda, editor
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RFalvo69
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by RFalvo69 »

...Aaaaand... Straight from the horse's mouth (people who were actually there):

- Admiral Sims and the Modern American Navy - Elting E. Morison
(That's about you if you play yhe US)
https://archive.org/details/admiralsims ... i/mode/2up

- The Victory at Sea - William S. Sims
(That's you in WWI)
https://archive.org/details/victoryatse ... a/mode/2up

- Naval Lessons of the Great War - Tracy B. Kittredge
(Senate investigations about the state of the US Navy before and after WWI launched after the war. Spoiler: it gets ugly fast)
https://archive.org/details/cu31924027833858/mode/2up

- Navy ordnance activities : World War, 1917-1918 - United States. Navy Dept. Bureau of Ordnance
(Everything bolted on US warships in 1920 and more, and how it came to be; with drawing and pictures)
https://archive.org/details/navyordnanc ... t/mode/2up

These books are of interest for those who want to lead the US Navy in the first two decades of the XX Century. There are tons. more of books about the various navies freely available at the Internet Archive and only a bit of search-fu is needed to get them.
"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

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supswar
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by supswar »

WilliamMiller wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 12:17 am Here is an additional bibliography of books used for RTW3, categorized by our own John Smith from NWS:

Warship and Naval Weapons development
The U.S. Navy, 1890-1990, One Hundred Years of Sea Power, George W. Baer
Aircraft Carriers - A history of carrier Aviation and it influence on world events Vol. I, 1909-1945, Norman Polmar
American & British Aircraft Carrier Development 1919-1941, Tomas C. Hone, Norman Friedman, Mark D. Mandeles
The Fast Carriers, The Forging of an Air Navy, Clark C. Reynolds
British Battleships, 1919-1939, R. A. Burt
The Aircraft Carrier Story, 1908-1945, Guy Robbins
Titans of the Sea, the Development and Operations of Japanese and American Carrier Task Forces during WWII, James H Belote and William M. Belote
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1994, Norman Friedman
A Century of Carrier Aviation, the Evolution of Ships and Shipborne Aircraft, David Hobbs

Air power
Why Air Forces Fail, the Anatomy of Defeat, Robin Highman and Stephen J. Harris, editors
Catapult Aircraft, Seaplanes that Flew from Ships Without Flight Decks, Leo Marriot
The History of Dive Bombing, Peter C. Smith
The Narrow Margin, the Battle of Britain and the Rise of Air Power, 1930-1949, Derek Wood & Derek Dempster
A History of the Luftwaffe, John Killen

Electronic warfare
The History of US Electronic Warfare, Vol. I and Vol. II, Alfred Price
Confound and Destroy, 100 Group and the Bomber Support Campaign, Martin Streetly
Missile era Naval Theory and Tactics
Fleet Tactics, Theory and Practice, Capt. Wayne P. Hughes, Jr., USN (Ret)
The Battle for the Falklands, Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins
The Leverage of Seapower, The Strategic Advantage of Navies in War, Collin S. Gray

Between the wars
Military innovation in the Interwar Period, Williamson Murray and Allan R. Millet, ed.
Warships After Washington, The Development of the Five Major Fleets 1922-1930, John Jordan

Histories - Pacific
Victory at Sea, World War II in the Pacific, James F. Dunnigan and Albert A. Nofi
The Air War, 1939-1945, R. J. Overy
The Pacific War, World War II and the Japanese, 1931-1945, Saburo Ienaga
The Thousand Mile War, World War II in the Alaska and Aleutians, Brian Garfield
The Conquering Tide, War in the Pacific Islands 1942-1944, Ian W. Toll
The Imperial Japanese Navy (1941-1945), Paul S. Dull
Japanese Destroyer Captain, Capt. Tameichi Hara, with Fred Sato and Roger Pineau
Eagle Against the Sun, The American War with Japan, Ronald H. Spector
Quadalcanal, The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle, Richard B. Frank
Quadalcanal, The Carrier Battles, Carrier Operations in the Solomons Aug.-Oct. 1942, Eric Hammel
Quadalcanal, Starvation Island, Erric Hammel
Quadalcanal, Edwin P. Hoyt
The Glory of the Solomons, Edwin P. Hoyt
The Battle for Quadalcanal, Samuel B. Griffith II, Brig. Gen. USMC (Ret.)
Above and Beyond 1941-1945, Wilbur H. Morrison
The Big "E", the stirring Saga of the U.S.S. Enterprise and the men who sailed her, Commander Edward P. Stafford USN
History of Warships, From Ancient Time to the Twenty-First Century, James L. George
Queen of the Flat-tops, the U.S.S. Lexington, Stanley Johnston

Histories - European Theatre
Strategy for Defeat, the Luftwaffe 1939-1945, Williamson Murray
The Disastrous Fall and Triumphant Rise of the Fleet Air Arm from 1912 to 1945, Henry 'Hank' Adlam
The Naval War Against Hitler, Donald Macintyre
The German Navy in World War Two, Edward P. Von der Porten
The Military Errors of World War Two, Kenneth Macksey
The First World War, John Keegan

Histories - Med
Struggle for the Middle Sea, The Great Navies at War in the Mediterranean Theatre, 1940-1945, Vincent P. O'Hara
A Short History of Air Power, James L. Stokesbury
Castles of Steel, Rabert K. Massie
The First Air War, 1914-1918, Lee Kennet
Hitler's Mediterranean Gamble, The North African and Mediterranean Campaigns in WWII, Douglas Porch

Histories - Korea
The Naval Air War in Korea, Richard P Hallion
The Sea War in Korea, Malcolm W. Cagle, Commander, USN, Frank A Manson, Commander, USN
The U.S. Navy in the Korean War, Edward J. Marolda, editor
Great! Thanks!
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by supswar »

RFalvo69 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 11:13 am ...Aaaaand... Straight from the horse's mouth (people who were actually there):

- Admiral Sims and the Modern American Navy - Elting E. Morison
(That's about you if you play yhe US)
https://archive.org/details/admiralsims ... i/mode/2up

- The Victory at Sea - William S. Sims
(That's you in WWI)
https://archive.org/details/victoryatse ... a/mode/2up

- Naval Lessons of the Great War - Tracy B. Kittredge
(Senate investigations about the state of the US Navy before and after WWI launched after the war. Spoiler: it gets ugly fast)
https://archive.org/details/cu31924027833858/mode/2up

- Navy ordnance activities : World War, 1917-1918 - United States. Navy Dept. Bureau of Ordnance
(Everything bolted on US warships in 1920 and more, and how it came to be; with drawing and pictures)
https://archive.org/details/navyordnanc ... t/mode/2up

These books are of interest for those who want to lead the US Navy in the first two decades of the XX Century. There are tons. more of books about the various navies freely available at the Internet Archive and only a bit of search-fu is needed to get them.
Thanks! "Naval Lessons of the Great War - Tracy B. Kittredge" looks super interesting.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by ChuckK »

Apologies if I missed a title in this thread, however does anyone have a recommendation for a book(s) covering the Mediterranean during WWI and/or the French Navy also during the Great War? Thxs!
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by Nikel »

ChuckK wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:29 pm Apologies if I missed a title in this thread, however does anyone have a recommendation for a book(s) covering the Mediterranean during WWI? Thxs!
The only one I know is Halpern's book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JuWoC ... &q&f=false
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by ChuckK »

Nikel wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 6:33 pm
ChuckK wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:29 pm Apologies if I missed a title in this thread, however does anyone have a recommendation for a book(s) covering the Mediterranean during WWI? Thxs!
The only one I know is Halpern's book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JuWoC ... &q&f=false
That’s more than I knew, ty. I appreciate the included link, Nikel! 👍
Saratoga CV-3
One of 3 U.S. pre-war carriers to survive WWII
Awarded 7 battle stars
Torpedoed on two separate occasions
Hit by 6 bombs, holed twice, on 2-17-45
Sunk at Bikini Atoll, '46, after enduring 2nd A-Bomb test
She was a tough Lady!
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by bschulte1978 »

JSTOR, which collects academic journals of all kinds, has the Naval War College Review as Open Access (right now or permanently I do not know): Naval War College Review

There are dozens and dozens of historic naval warfare articles dealing mostly with the naval warfare from the late 1800s to WW2, or almost exactly the time frame of the Rule the Waves series.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by RFalvo69 »

Kaigun - Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy 1887-1941 by David C. Evans & Mark R. Peattie
https://archive.org/details/kaigunstrat ... n/mode/2up

[I must try this one...]
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by IslandInland »

One of my favourite naval books is Aircraft Carriers of the World 1914 to the Present by Roger Chesneau. I first came across this book when I used to play SSG's original Carriers at War on the C64. That was the game that sparked my interest in naval warfare and particularly aircraft carriers.

You can pick up a cheap second hand copy from Amazon UK.
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Re: A book about real world RTW

Post by RFalvo69 »

Drachinifel posted his list of suggested books if you want to learn about the Royal Navy:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ltoJdCvPlRc
"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")
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