Major auto-designer problem: powerless fighters without any warning

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100thMonkey
Posts: 504
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Major auto-designer problem: powerless fighters without any warning

Post by 100thMonkey »

Platform: Steam
Build version: 1.0.8.6 Beta (started with v1.0.8.4 Beta)
Severity: Medium
Annoyance factor: Very High
Saved game:
The Culture - Ackdarian - 2781-09-30.7z
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The auto-designer made bombers and interceptors design that had a major flaw, without the game giving any warning about the problem.

The design flaw is that the interceptors and bombers didn’t have enough energy to fire their weapons:

Bomber energy section.png
Bomber energy section.png (32.65 KiB) Viewed 331 times

But for me, the main problem is not so much the lack of power. After all, if there’s no reactor powerful enough at that point in the game (which was the case in my game), it can’t conjure one out if thin air. No, the problem is that player is not informed that there’s a defect in an automated design.

When designing the destroyers, there was absolutely no indications that there was or would be a problem with the interceptors and bombers that would be built from the starfighter bays. Nor was there any indication of the problem or warning about it anywhere else after that, at any point. Except that my fleet with 124 fighters was utterly defeated by a boskaran fleet with mostly frigates, each armed with only 1 plasma blaster, 1 epsilon torpedo and 1 sentinel multi-beam.

I don’t have much experience with fighters in DW2, but I suspect that’s not how things would have turned out if the fighters would have been able to fire their weapons. Especially since I had beelined toward the “Fast Interceptors” and “Fast Bombers” Ackdarian specific techs.

But whether or not my fleet would have won with abled fighters, the game should inform the player when an auto-design has defects. Especially fighter auto-designs, since most players probably never check those designs. I know I never did before.

When I went in those fighter designs, to try to understand what happened, there was an indication that there was a defect. But the player shouldn’t have to go check the automated designs to see if they’re OK or not. Especially when the designs are as hidden as the fighters designs are (what do you think are the chances that a player new to the DW franchise would find the solution to the problem I’ve encountered?). No, the game should inform the player of any defect in its auto-generated design, as soon as such a defect appear in a design, whether it’s after its creation or its modification.

Of course, that includes letting the player know, when adding a starfighter bay in the ship designer, that an auto-designed fighter has a defect.

But also, if at any point in the game (ie: not only while in the ship designer), the game creates or modify an automated design (including fighter designs), and that design has one or more defect, the game should inform the player of that fact. And it should be done in a way that would make it impossible for the player to not see that information.
- Imagine how confusing it is to a new player!
- "The welfare of the people…has always been the alibi of tyrants…giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." – Albert Camus
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100thMonkey
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: Major auto-designer problem: powerless fighters without any warning

Post by 100thMonkey »

I'm further along in the game, and have now researched more powerful reactors. So I went in to check if the (still) auto-designed bombers and interceptors were now OK. I think they are, but I'm not sure, because the energy graph doesn't show any weapons.

Energy section.png
Energy section.png (30.36 KiB) Viewed 299 times

What makes me think that the design is OK is that if I place the mouse pointer over the graph, I get the following:

Energy tooltip.png
Energy tooltip.png (44.96 KiB) Viewed 299 times

So, it's probably just a display bug (weapons do show in graphs for everything else... or at least, I never saw a design with weapons where they didn't show in the graph).
- Imagine how confusing it is to a new player!
- "The welfare of the people…has always been the alibi of tyrants…giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." – Albert Camus
User avatar
100thMonkey
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: Major auto-designer problem: powerless fighters without any warning

Post by 100thMonkey »

Just noticed that there was a defect and 3 recommendations for the auto-designed bomber!?

The defect is "Your empire already has a design with this name." This is something that I've pretty much encountered in every game, when a multi-hulls tech is acquired. Obviously, it's also a thing for auto-designed fighters. It seems to me that the game should be able to name its own auto-designs properly.

Now, about the recommendations. The designer recommend adding an energy collector. Problem is that, as far as I can tell, it can't be done for fighters. I'm also not sure it would make sense even if it could be done. The designer shouldn't recommend things that can't be done. As I've put in my signature: imagine how confusing that is to a new player! One might also be tempted to ask "why doesn't the auto-designer follow its own recommendations?" :mrgreen:

Now, if I may, a recommendation about recommendations: I suggest using three different labels for the designers messages, instead of the current two:

- "Defects
- "Recommendations"
- "Warnings"

Simply because recommendations are often, in fact, warnings. As is the case for two of the current recommendations in the designer:

Warnings.png
Warnings.png (140.4 KiB) Viewed 292 times
- Imagine how confusing it is to a new player!
- "The welfare of the people…has always been the alibi of tyrants…giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." – Albert Camus
Schatten
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:38 am

Re: Major auto-designer problem: powerless fighters without any warning

Post by Schatten »

congratulations, you just found the next not working feature.

The low energy issue is from there that the autodesigner puts reactor, fuel cell and command modul in, however the fuel cell is usless so it needs to be replaced manually by a second reactor, than you get enough energy.

Also, as you mention there is always the usless warning about solar collector even there is no one for a fighter. And 2 engines are not enough so you always *enjoy* the spam about too slow.
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